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The imperfect amp: Pass or Ayre?

There are two high end SS amp brands which, from a technical perspective, don’t do very well, which I am thinking of:

Ayre and Pass.

Pass has stated that even ordered distortion is euphonic. Ayre’s zero feedback, diamond circuit has a great deal of distortion compared to the very best measuring amps.

I have to admit, that like an IPA vs. a Belgian White, I have a very strong preference, but my preference is not canon. It is just how my wallet moves me. You should in no way feel like my tastes matter. Buy what makes you giddy with joy.

Would you, kind lady or gentleman, tell us if you have heard both, what did you think?? Is this to narrow? Would you throw another brand into the ring??
erik_squires
cal3713's avatar
cal3713
1,421 posts
 
@almarg & @atmasphere Just to repeat, thanks so much for posting.  It's so good when education is made part of this site where so much is just opinion.

@erik_squires And depending on what design you're focused on, Pass doesn't just make some of what he does transparent, he makes all of it so. So many of his circuits are totally laid bare for people to read/analyze/copy/modify. His support of DIY makes the high end audio world a better place.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,772 posts
 
It would be nice to me if I could go from my preferred amps to specs and go "aha! This is what I like!" and therefore, buy the cheapest that fits. :D :D :D
@erik_squires 
What is needed (and entirely possible right now) is a weighting system for the various harmonic spectra. The 2nd and 3rd, since the ear is least sensitive to them having a weight of  'one', something like the 7th having a weight of 500 and the 11th or 13th maybe 1000. If we had a system like that we'd know what we're dealing with in a heartbeat, but don't hold your breath- the industry collectively would be really hating on something like that since its bad for business- what- a spec sheet that tells you how it sounds?? Yikes!!
gdnrbob
4,442 posts
 
@ctsooner 
@tomic601 ,

Thanks for the detailed answer.
I own the MX-R and KX-R. Both sound pretty amazing in their non-updated state. I had a chance to update the KX-R, but wanted to hear it first before I did anything. In fact, it bested my Atma MP-3. (So, Ralph is going to build me an MP-1😁, so I can do a closer comparison).
As it sounds so good now, I really needed your comments regarding the Twenty upgrade in order to get an idea of what kind of improvements there would be. (Looks like I will be waiting for the next Upgrade Special at Ayre).
Unfortunately, my Treo's are not up-gradable to CT status.-And, I really don't wish to buy another speaker.

@erik_squires 
Sorry for the digression.
Bob

ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
Bob, the KXR/20 is one of the best preamps made I feel.  It's Ayre's best product to date IMHO as well as most others.  It's a special piece. The MXR/20 upgrade is awesome, but not in the same league as the KXR.  That said, the preamp is more important than the amp, so that would be the upgrade I go with.  The literally use only the case and connections.  The rest of the unit is brand new.  The may still use the transformer.  It's basically a brand new unit though.  I have seen them make them.  Hope that helps a bit.  It's a 30k preamp for a reason.  I dream of owning one.  
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
12,895 posts
 
@atmasphere  I think the weighting system is a splendid idea and certainly a tool designers could develop internal to the firm as a way to score various designs. We used a weighted multi variable trade space to evaluate designs for Aerosystems, etc
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