@mikelavigne I agree! I use my speakers more than my useless in the snow BMW convertible! Now I drive a Subaru Ascent!
I listen to speakers more and have my main system hooked up to my television to get more ROI!
The Snob Appeal Premium
I have learned that speakers are a typical victim of "Designer Label Syndrome". Supposedly an $8 billion a year market (hard to believe) speakers are fairly simple beasts with little substantive improvements over the last 50 years. Ever since Paul Klipsch ( a character in his own right) read the Bell Labs 1934 papers and revolutionized speaker technology there have been few similar revolutionary improvements to the speaker. So- if you are an enterprising manufacturer of speakers (which are relatively cheap to build) how do you extract more and more money from the consumer ? Answer: Synthetic demand driven by cachet' ! Like a pair of Louis Vuitton sneakers @ $650 a pair vs. New Balance runners @ 60/pr. It's snobby bragging rights stuff I'm describing here- perceived vs. actual value in a product.
Here's an anecdotal example:
I recently set out to build a high end mid-fi system (ARC preamp, power amp, Dac 9) for a large room "main house" (not a listening room) system. The goal was big, full, rich sound in a room full of furniture, chow dogs, kids and untreatable other things like 20 foot ceilings, multiple openings such as a balcony to the upstairs bedrooms, etc. Basically an audiophile's nightmare.
I auditioned a number of speakers- Perlistens supported by JL Fathom subs, B&W Signatures, Bryston Model Ts, Vienna Acoustics Mahlers and Bethovens. IMO all of these are somewhat similar towers (except the Perlistens). The price point was not as important as the sound- given the limitations of the application.
In the shopping for new or used I found a number of odd prices. The most unusual finding was a brand new set of Model Ts here in Audiogon advertised for $4K with a 20 year factory warranty. The dealer had one slide around of his hand truck and it put white paint smears on a corner of the Boston Cherry cabinet. Hmmm- 4 grand vs. 12 grand for a small fixable cosmetic flaw? I bought them. They sound fantastic. Some elbow grease and a furniture marker pen made the flaw vanish.
I asked the dealer (Paul Kraft in Easton PA- great guy BTW) why the Audiogon Blue Book for a Model T was so low. His answer was "snob appeal". Apparently there is a big bragging rights premium paid for having the UFO looking B&W Signatures vs what the snobs call the Bryston Model Ts "Axioms in a fancy suit". I later learned that there are some prominent reviewers who refuse to listen to A/B speaker comparisons behind a silk curtain unless they know what brand is being scrutinized. To me that means "payola".
Do the Model Ts sound better to me than the Mahlers, Bethovens, B&Ws? No. But they don't sound worse either (in my application). Do the above sound $8,000-$14,000 better than the Brystons in the listening rooms of the dealers? IMO NO WAY. To be fair price/value does color my perception much like a bottle of $40 Rumbauer Zin tastes better to me than $200 Silver Oak expense account wine.
I'm guessing this post will anger brand snobs and garner snarky comments because their taste in sound is different than mine. Although this missive is really about personal perceptions of value v. sound I found my education on pricing fascinating and I feel great about finding amazing value in the brand new Model T's that needed 30 minutes of TLC to be at home in my family room.
Moral of the story: Try em before you buy em, and look for value. It's fun and rewarding with no buyers remorse.
Showing 7 responses by pennfootball71
OK I don’t want to insult you, but you really did listen to a lot of cheaper mdf partial board or wooden speakers. These sound like boxes. B&W is kind of bottom or the Barrel with Dynaudio and KEF and all that stuff and is lower tier. Good speakers tend to cost the same as a luxury BMW or Mercedes for a reason. My speakers were $58,750…So about 10%-15% goes to the distributor, 50% goes to the dealer…they cost about 10,000 to manufacture and 2000-3000 to ship on a pallet on a crate. The ultra high-end speakers is only a couple hundred a year and the crazy 100k speakers are a few dozen a year sold. As you go up the ladder, now you understand why the profit has to be high for it to make a business case. When you spend over $10,000 in parts just to make a speaker you’re gonna get some great speakers….when it’s 1500-3000 your speakers are going to be over 10-15 grand and be made with midfi parts. A reviewer for the absolute sound only makes about $500 for the review by the way! The industry is really full of people who love music. Most audio reviewers have other jobs. |
Other speakers I heard and tried YG acoustics Carmel 2, YG acoustics Hailey 2.2, YG Sonja 2.2 Vivid Kaya 25 & 45, Vivid Giya G1 and G2 Dynamikks Athos 10 (best bang per buck) Magico A5 & Magico S5 Kharma Exquisite Midi 3.0 Wilson Alexx V, Wilson Alexia V, Wilson Sash DAW Raidho TD 3.8, Raidho D3 Borreson 05 Should I say I have a dedicated listening apartment? Lol 😂 I have a house too I am fixing up and might sell and move south…or make a dedicated room if I move back in there. |
I just replaced my YG’s with Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 Kubala Sosna Realization Cables Modwright KWH 225i integrated amp that’s a hybrid…it’s amazing and just so real sounding. It is a hidden gem and 220w into 8 and 400w into 4 ohms. It can compete with the big boys and beat most separates under 20-30k. I have a Lampizator Baltic 2 that was modified by VuJaDe Audio and recapped with V-Caps and Audio Note caps, new resistors and a steel cover over the transformer and a huge clarity cap on the power choke. I use a Sophia electric 274b rectifier. Streamer is an Auralic Ares G1 I am upgrading to a G3 when they are available. My system is not plug and play from big box stuff and I had to do a lot of work getting the sound I want. I went through 4 amps, 3 pairs of speakers and 3 sets of cables and 2 dacs and one sound engineer moding my gear before I got it the way I want. This took me over 3.5 years to get done. |
@ronboco New Sonus Faber Aida is great! Rockport as well makes amazing speakers. On tubes…Preamp/DAC with tubes won’t cook the room. A tube power amp you can roast marshmallows on and if you like Rockport you will need a solid state output. My Modwright only has 2 tubes on the balanced preamp buffer. The rest is solid state. 225watts into 8 and 400 into 4 ohms. |
@ronboco The Boulder is decent. The Modwright has a little bit bigger power transformer and tube preamp is going to give it a slightly wider and deeper sound stage. If you upgrade to a Lampizator Baltic 4 I can help you get into one that will be all the tubes you need for now. That will be a bigger impact than the amp. Sophia electric tubes and LinLai will be what you need for the Lampi. |
YG acoustics Carmel 2, YG acoustics Hailey 2.2, YG Sonja 2.2 YG is very flat, need a ton of power and kind of a huge studio monitor but never harsh. Vivid Kaya 25 & 45, Vivid Giya G1 and G2 vivid are like open baffle speakers bolted on different size subs and blended better than you can blend with subs. Sideways bass drivers don’t mess with room as much and dig down deeper than advertised frequency response. Easy to drive 6 ohm loads. Dynamikks Athos 10 (best bang per buck) They are concentric Horns around a midrange. Great highs and magical mids. Bass dies at about 35 htz. They need subs. Magico A5 & Magico S5…A5 is a bit bright and lacks a little bass but is not thin. The S5 has a we bit more bass and a shittier midrange. Kharma Exquisite Midi 3.0 boomy bass perfect mids and highs but a disappointing mess that’s not controlled down low. Wilson Alexx V, Wilson Alexia V, Wilson Sash DAW Alexia-V and Alexx-V solid build, colored midrange but nice and warm…tons of bass and depending on set up can be boomy obnoxious to glorious. Highs are adequate but not enough sparkle. The Vivids crush them like grapefruits. Raidho TD 3.8, Raidho D3 amazing speakers but Td3.8 a bit boomy. The older D3 is better and has better control.
|