Thiel Owners

Greetings Thiel Owners!


I am a hopeful future Thiel owner and I have been lurking on this thread since early November.  I felt it was finally time to introduce myself and tell you all a little bit about my speaker/Thiel journey to date.


Before I explain anymore about myself or my journey, I was hoping to do a quick review. Not a speaker review but a review of this thread and this community.


This thread, Jafant and the people contributing to it are something special. I have never been accepted as a beginner into a community of enthusiasts, as easily and quickly, as I have been into this community of Thiel owners. I had the extreme good fortune of meeting JA at the start of my audio journey and I must say he is every bit as friendly, passionate, knowledgable and generous with his experience in real life as he is in this forum. JA lives down the road from me and he has been communicating with me since early November. He is always giving me time on the phone, or on email, or even going out to lunch with me, to discuss anything from our dream systems, how to audition gear, what music to listen to, work, health, travel, anything. He even gifted me a great reference disc(Jamie Cullum's TwentySomething) to take on my travels to audio shops. I reached out to an internet stranger and got an instant friend and I am very grateful to him for his kindness and for sharing his passion and experience with me and all of us by creating this thread.


JA is not the only one. This entire thread is driven by all of you and your experience and passion and the respectful banter and exchange of ideas between you. For a newb like me, your passion and experience fuels and inspires me to find my own sound and system. Thank you to everyone who has contributed to the conversation here, you have all taught me something.


Thank you to Prof who has been a great source of information, thank you for sharing your time and experience with me. I appreciate your help.


And a very big thank you to RonKent for his amazing generosity and hospitality. After a few email exchanges with ronkent, I invited myself to his house, to listen to his system. Not only did I invite myself but I gave him very short notice. He took me into his home and not only let me listen to his system but fed me an excellent home cooked meal, prepared by his girlfriend, and then let me stay after dinner to continue listening. Let me say that again, he let a complete stranger sit in his house and listen to his system until 8:30pm and fed him(me) dinner. If you make it to the end of this wall of text, or if you want to skip to the bottom, I will save my thoughts on his system for last. Ronkent is an awesome guy with an amazing system and I sincerely appreciate him welcoming me into his home for a listen.


Now for a little about me. I am 38 and my current setup is an audio technica turntable with a wifi transmitter and a bose soundlink bluetooth speaker. I have always had an interest in getting a real stereo setup centered around a beautiful tube amp and turntable. I was recently diagnosed with pretty significant heart disease and my doctor told me I need more music. That was all the excuse and motivation I needed to get my first real setup. I live in Alabama and my options here are limited so I turned to the internet and that's where I met Jafant. JA pointed me in the direction of this thread and several dealers in the south east. I had a work trip up to Raleigh and JA helped me setup some demos up there. I was so excited to hear my first hifi setup but a few days before that trip I went into Atrial Fibrillation and spent a few days in the ICU and my trip was canceled. Since then I have recovered and continue to pursue my first setup. Since my trip to the ICU I have had some really great opportunities to listen to some amazing gear and I was hoping to share my experiences with you guys. I know this is a long post and appreciate anyone making it this far. I feel this context was and is important to understanding my experience level, which is none, and what some of my motivations are for jumping into this hobby.


So far I have had 5 different demo sessions at 5 different places and listened to a lot of amazing gear in a short period of time. I have listened to the Dynaudio Excite 38 and Contour 60. I got to tour PS Audio and visit their listening room with their Infinity IRS V. I went to Soundings in Denver and listened to Vienna Acoustics Concert Grand, Chario Academy Sovran, Rockport Technologies Atria, and Rockport Technologies Cygnus. I also went to ListenUp in Boulder and listened to Sonus Faber Sonetto VIII, Sonus Faber Sarafino, Focal Kanta, Focal Maestro Utopia, Magnepan 1.7i, B&W 804 D3, and B&W 802 D3. Lastly, I got to listen to ronkent's Thiel CS3.7 paired with his PS Audio gear.


I had initially intended to give my first impressions on all of these speakers but this post has gotten rather long. Also, I don't want to derail the Thiel discussion with first impressions from a newb on other non Thiel speakers. I would however like to give my first impressions as a newb on 2 of the systems I got to hear, the IRSV at PS Audio and ronkents CS3.7s. If anyone is interested in my impressions on anything else I heard, or more in depth details about the gear I heard them on, Im happy to share those details as well.


As far as my experience in the PS Audio listening room, it was eye opening. The listening room features Infinity IRS V speakers powered by PS Audio BHK 300 monoblocks. I am assuming their listening room would blow away even the most seasoned audiophile, but for someone who has never listened to a true high end hifi setup, it was a "wow' moment. I did not know that a two channel setup could make a sound like that. I don't really have the vocabulary to describe it yet but I explained it to a friend as "black magic". The music came on but it did not come from the speakers. It came from behind the speakers or really from everywhere but the speakers. Those IRS Vs absolutely disappeared. Scott played the first song and he picked James Taylor Gaia. It sounded like a full sized James Taylor was in front of me singing and he was there, just 10 feet behind the speakers. Then a choir started singing and they were another 10 feet behind him and the separation of the other instruments and band members was so obvious and amazing. And beyond the separation and imaging, I found the overall sound to be amazing and clean. The voices sounded amazingly real which I really like. But this experience taught me about imaging and I am hooked.


I tried to explain it to my brother who is a skeptic in general but also has no experience and limited interest in hifi. The best way I could explain it to him was that it was like if you had seen black and white your entire life and then you saw color for the first time. I used the same analogy with JA Fant but took it a bit further. I have read so many adjectives and descriptors of sound quality that are hard to understand or comment on, until you have actually heard them. I told JA that it is hard to describe the color green but it is even harder to describe it if you have never seen it and now that I have seen color, so to speak, it makes it a little easier to understand and discuss.


I was worried about having the Infinity IRS V be the first listening experience for me in Colorado as I was scared it would set my expectations too high but in retrospect I think it was actually the perfect place to start as it set the bar for the rest of the gear I listened to thereafter. Everytime I listen to something now it is always in comparison to my memory of those IRS V. Nothing I listened to came close to the performance of those IRS V(except maybe the Focal Maestro Utopia at $75K) that is until I got to listen to RonKents system.


RonKent has gone into his system, setup, and listening room in great detail already in this thread so I won't rehash all of that. If you are not familiar with Ronkent's setup he has the Thiel CS3.7 powered by the PS Audio BHK 250 and all PS Audio gear and cables and he has everything dialed in perfectly. It is impossible for me to do justice to his system with my limited vocabulary but to say my jaw dropped is an understatement. We started off listening to Gaia by James Taylor, just like in Boulder with PS Audio. Of all the speakers and systems I listened to, this was the closest to replicating the sound I heard at PS Audio. The only other system that sounded that good or better was the Focal Maestro Utopia paired with Marc Levinson gear and the speakers alone were $75K. I remember grinning so hard and so much at Ronkents house that my cheeks hurt. Those big CS3.7's absolutely disappeared and it was that same black magic effect I felt in Boulder at PS Audio. The sound literally came from everywhere. He has some acoustic treatment panels in his room and I told him I wouldn't be surprised if people who didn't know better thought the sound was coming from those, and he said that has happened before. We listened to a song off of Deep Purple "FireBall" and there was this effect where the sound crashed in like a wave from the left side of the soundstage to the right and then rolled back again, it was an awesome!


Ronkent asked me for an honest first impression comparison between his system and the one PS Audio has and this is the honest feedback I gave him. First impression was that the soundstage on the IRS V felt taller to me, which to me makes sense, since those speakers are so much bigger. Also, the sound stage on the IRS V sounded like it had more depth to me. For example in Gaia, when I heard the choir singing 10-15 feet behind James Taylor in Boulder, they didn't feel quite as far away in ronkents system but there was definitely separation there. That being said, I was absolutely blown away by ronkents setup. I have read so much about the Thiels that I was scared I had set myself up for disappointment but when I heard them they were better than I expected. I told ronkent I thought it sounded "rich" but in a good way, he agreed and used the word "full" which was exactly what I was trying to describe. Voices sounded very good to me on the Thiels which I really like as I have been described as someone who like "big voices". Getting to listen to and experience ronkents setup was a great experience that proved to me, what I had been suspecting all along, which is that I want to be a Thiel owner too!


So the day after meeting ronkent and listening to his system, I met up with a guy who has a pair of Morado CS3.7. He mentioned he might be interested in selling them and he was upfront about the fact that he was on the fence. I took him a certified check with my best offer on it and he thought the offer was the right price but he needs more time to think about it, so I sadly drove 550 miles back home empty handed. I am hoping he comes around and decides to sell them but I'm not sure if he will or not. He assured me if he sells them, they are mine. In the meantime I am actively on the lookout for some CS2.7 or CS3.7 with a very strong preference for the CS3.7, so if any of you decide to sell, please consider me, as I would give them a very good home and they would be very well appreciated and cared for here.


This has been an epically long post, thank you to anyone who actually made it to the end and thanks again to this community and JA for all the help and support.

@pwhinson Thank you for that generous offer. It just further illustrates my point about how wonderful this community is.

I would absolutely like to take you up on your offer! However, one thing I did not mention in my previous post is that my wife is extremely pregnant with our third child and she is about 2 weeks away from her due date. My audio journey is on hold for the next 12-14 weeks or so. I will shoot you a message when I start my travels back up again. Thank you!

@thosb they did not have the PS Audio speaker prototypes and I definitely asked. It sounds like they are keeping those a secret until Axpona. I did get to see the Arnie Nudell prototype speakers(I think they were prototype speakers) that they were using as their reference speakers when designing the PS Audio speakers. 

@tmsrdg and @ronkent
Just for full transparency, I am somewhat limited in experience and gear listened to but ronkent is correct that I definitely enjoyed the sound of the BHK amp paired with ronkents 3.7s. I thought it was amazing. Definitely worth the trip to Boulder to check them out if you can make the trip.

I found some very interesting mint Thiel speakers today that are available for sale. I am waiting for pictures and in the process of setting up a demo, negotiating for them, and working out some logistical issues. Fingers crossed I might be a Thiel owner soon enough.

I actually found a guy who has some 2.7s and 3.7s available. I am interested in both, I’m just waiting on pricing and pictures. The 3.7s have a serial number in the 600’s. I have read, in this thread perhaps, that the early original production run of the 3.7s had a metal dome that was tweaked in later runs for a composite(i think) dome. I am assuming a serial number in the 600s would be a second or later production run, can anyone confirm this? And does anyone know if there are any pros and or cons, or problems, with either version of the dome? Thanks!

I meant the black cap on the top of the speaker.

Hey Tom!
I sent an email with your question and several others. I will keep you all posted on the response.
Thanks for the help.

Tom and All,
I hope you all had a great weekend!

This was the response I got from Rob regarding the aluminum caps on the 3.7s. "All CS3.7’s incorporated an aluminum cap. The earlier versions were anodized black, and there were some cases of the anodizing turning gold in color. The later CS3.7’s incorporated a Black Powder Coat on the caps, which would not change colors. I don’t know the serial number in which this change was made, but it was around the #800 serial number. No sonic issues with either version."

Heads up Thiel friends,
there is a pair of 3.7’s that just landed on eBay. I have been looking for a pair since January and this is the first US pair I have seen land on eBay. They look good to me and seem to be priced right. I hope someone that will cherish them ends up with them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thiel-Speakers-CS-3-7-Pristine/113720348712?hash=item1a7a42d028:g:5YkAAOSwMupctcW7&frcectupt=true

Whats up everyone? I pick up my mint in the box 3.7s a week from Monday. I am so excited I can't stand it. I am currently researching and getting my cables together and got a really good head start thanks to RonKent, thanks again. I really appreciate the recent cable banter above, thank you all, very informative.

I have also been day dreaming about future upgrades and an email from RonKent got me thinking about and reading about sub woofers. I was just curious what the general consensus on subs was among Thiel owners, 3.7 owners in particular. How many of you 3.7 owners out there include a sub in your setup? Thanks

Hey guys! I know a few of you have been wanting an update and I apologize for the delayed response. I appreciate your continued interest in this newbies journey. I apologize in advance for the long post.
The trip out to Denver was awesome. It was very rushed as I left my wife at home with 3 children the youngest of which is an 8 week old. I flew into Denver on a Sunday night with the plan being to pick up the speakers Monday morning and drive them all the way back to Alabama by Tuesday evening(I made it).

The dealer who sold me the speakers was very nice and very knowledgeable about Thiel, both their products and their story. He said he knew Jim and was very good friends with Kathy. He had some pretty cool Thiel stuff to show me including a cross section of a 2.4. I got a picture of it you can see here. http://imgur.com/hVzEC4J I don’t know how to post it in the forum. I have it as my profile picture now. I got a picture of the serial number off the cross cut 2.4 if someone is collecting 2.4 serial numbers. He also had a pair of 2.4s and 2.7s(not cross sectioned). I have those serial numbers as well.

The dealer was also a Cardas dealer and he was willing to let me take cables home to demo. What he says he typically does is he gives the customers cables to demo at home that are at a price point the customer is comfortable with, then he also adds cables that are a step above that in price so the customer can hear the difference and decide which one to get. Then the customer returns the cables he doesn’t want or returns them all. I passed on getting any cables to demo until after I have the system burned in.

The speakers made the journey across the country safely and in good condition. I am so pleased with the way they sound. Everyone told me to brace for how terrible they would sound out of the box but I thought they sounded great compared to what I’m coming from. My entire system is brand new so everything needs burning in. I have all PS Audio gear, the BHK 250 amp, BHK Signature preamp, and DSD Jr DAC. I also have a MoFi Ultradeck turntable but I am still shopping for a phono so I haven’t played with it yet. So far I have been streaming to the DSD Jr DAC using my iphone with an app called Mconnect and Qobuz. Mconnect is the interface, kind of like Roon, but it is a one time fee of $5 as opposed to Roon’s subscription service. I like Qobuz so far but Mconnect keeps crashing so it might not be a viable option.

So most importantly, how do they sound? I always get so intimidated trying to explain what I am hearing to a bunch of very experienced audiophiles and critical listeners such as yourselves so please pardon my inexperience and lack of reference. As far as the speakers, I think they sound amazing and I thought they did out of the box as well but just got better and better with each hour I put on them. I told RonKent it was like watching a flower slowly bloom. After the first 100 hours they really started to open up. The sound stage is amazing but not quite on par with what RonKent has achieved. It does seem like as more time passes the sound stage has gotten more depth and separation to it. I had more than one person tell me in a critical way that Thiel are very forward sounding and I am not getting that at all. The sound is coming from the back wall and depending on the recording the speakers do seem to almost disappear. Voices sound very natural and pleasing to me. I do feel like there is something off that I can’t put my finger on, I think it may be that the bass is a little muddy or just not right yet but I don’t know. Shortly after I got the speakers home I had surgery, because of this I have not been able to move the speakers or play with speaker placement at all but I plan to start playing around with them this week and see what differences I can hear. I have 350 hours on the system as of now.

Also of importance, my wife approves which was really the big test for me. She told me she was happy to have music in the house again, which was her way of saying it was worth the trouble. She really likes them and we have fun switching seats and taking turns in the sweet spot. My family was busting my chops about the speakers recently and the fact that I would drive that far for them and my wife’s response was "I would totally be rolling my eyes too if they didn’t sound as good as they do". So I guess I win? ;)

Lastly, I know this is a Thiel thread but I wanted to put a quick plug out for MoFi as I feel they went above and beyond in providing me with customer service in a situation where most companies would simply have shrugged and done nothing. Long story short I found that my brand new MoFi Ultradeck was damaged in shipping, but I did not fully unbox and find the damage for a good 3-4 months after I received it. In spite of the long amount of time that passed, MoFi replaced the turntable question/hassle free. For them to do that after so much time had passed speaks volumes to me about how they treat their customers. I am impressed and relieved they were willing and able to replace my turntable. Now I just need a phono!

Thanks for reading, sorry for the long post. I tried to keep it as short as possible.

Hello Fellow Thiel Owners!

I was hoping you guys could help me out with some recommendations for a phono stage. My current system is a PS Audio BHK signature preamp, BHK 250 Amp, PS Audio DSD Jr DAC, MoFi Ultradeck Turntable with a MoFi master tracker cartridge, Thiel 3.7 speakers, PS Audio power cables and a mix of used interconnects from Ron_Kent.

I was hoping to be in the $500-$1500 price range(I don’t mind going a little over or under I really just don’t want to spend more than I spent on the turntable). I asked my local dealer, who sold me my turntable, about the MoFi Phono and he said it was several levels beneath my PS Audio gear(I didn’t ask him what that meant for my turntable but I wondered). He suggested I go with the PS Audio preamp called the Sprout($500) as it has a phono stage in it but he also admitted he knew nothing about it. The new PS Audio Phono is around $2500 MSRP, which is more than I want to spend.

Lastly, I thought it might be fun to get a phono with some tubes in it but it is not a must. Do you vinyl guys out there have any recommendations for a phono stage that might pair well with my system?

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

Heads up! A pair of 3.7s just hit Audio mart if anyone is interested! Looks like they are in New York.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649553539-thiel-cs37-speakers/

Oh man, I always wanted a pair of 3.7s in ebony!!

Agreed! They are my favorite color next to the Morado.

TomThiel- Thank you for the response. Do I need to remove the little black cage that is over the tweeter to use the vacuum or masking tape method? If so, how do I do that? Thanks

https://imgur.com/gallery/RidPnxL

Well that didn’t take long! I made the mistake of taking my grill covers off for a few hours and my 6 year old couldn’t resist the urge to touch the tweeter on one of my 3.7s while I was out of the room. She dented it pretty good. Check out the pictures. Any tips or advice? Thanks for the help.

Rojacob, Thielrules, Jazzman, Jon_5912, TomThiel and all!
Thank you all for the great responses. Yes I think one of those fat straws would fit through and I love the idea of the paper towel roll. All great ideas.

That being said I found a video(see link below) of Paul McGowan talking about dented tweeter domes. In his opinion, depending on the extent of the dent, it would most likely not be a problem except cosmetically. His attitude was that it would not affect the sound quality. I was a bit skeptical about that and wanted to hear opinions from you guys.

I called Rob over at Coherent Source this morning. I wanted to run some of these ideas by him before I tried anything. He suggested the tape method as well. I mentioned the video of Paul and his opinion on dented tweeters. Rob agreed with Paul. Rob said as long as I was not hearing any buzzing, then the voice coil was not damaged and it would likely not be an issue.

JA and I are trying to get together for a listening session at my place in the next few weeks. I’m thinking I might wait for JA’s assessment before I try anything. That will give me time to keep listening, and thinking about what I want to do. I don’t feel any need to rush to fix it at this point.

That being said, I bet getting that dent to pop out with a paper towel roll or straw is probably the most satisfying feeling in the world. If I try anything I am leaning towards the paper roll or straw(I have the perfect water bottle straw).

Thanks for all the help. I will keep you all posted when I have an update.

https://www.psaudio.com/askpaul/does-a-dented-dome-tweeter-matter/

Hello fellow Thiel Owners. I have a question for the tinkerers of the group.

I bought a soldering iron and I have been practicing soldering and desoldering in preparation for possibly removing the damaged driver from my 3.7s. I have been talking with Rob who suggested I do one of two things, either desolder the terminal connection, or cut the wires as close to the terminal as possible. It seems to me that desoldering would be the preferred method but I am curious which method you would chose.

Also, I sent a few questions to Rob and was hoping I could pose the same questions to you guys. Here is what I sent Rob:

"I had a few more questions about removing this driver. I bought a soldering iron and I have been watching youtube videos and practicing soldering and desoldering. I think I am ready to give this a try. What is the best way to position the speaker to remove the driver(on its back, on its side, standing up)? Is a desoldering wick the way to go and if so what size would you recommend? Secondly, once I remove the screws and have the driver lose, how much slack is there in the wire connecting it, will I need a second set of hands to hold it while I desolder it? Beyond the soldering iron, what other tools would I need or would you recommend? Any practical tips for a beginner trying to desolder this terminal connection?"

Thanks for the help guys.

I hope everyone had a nice weekend! I finally got everything setup and decided to get some pictures and setup my virtual system. Feel free to take a look at and critique my setup. Any advice or tips are welcome. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8162


Jazzman! I see we had the same idea late last week. What a gorgeous setup. That room is beautiful. I love your 2.4’s in black.

Hey Guys!

I hope you are all doing well. I was just wanting to report on a really fun listening session I had yesterday. JA and I have been planning to get together for a listening session for some time now and I was so excited to have him over for a listen yesterday.

I had the system up and running well before he showed up and when he got there we started out listening to the DAC. I have a PS Audio BHK 250 Amp, BHK Signature pre, and Direct Stream Jr. and we were listening to Qobuz hi res files and of course Thiel 3.7s. We listened to several tracks off of Jamie Cullum's "Twentysomething" while increasing the volume by increments of 5 every song. Then we switched to Rolling Stones "Midnight Rambler" and then James Taylor's "Gaia" before switching to the turntable. I thought the DSD Jr handled everything we listened to very well. "Twentysomething" is a Jamie Cullum album that JA turned me onto. JA uses this album as a reference album and for good reason. It is a very well produced album with an excellent jazz trio and a very tight performance. I could hear all of the instruments distinctly and clearly. There is a lot of texture on this album as well that the system put on full display. JA suggested we try out "Midnight Rambler" to see how the system handled a live rock n roll song played on electric instruments.  We finished up with Gaia and both commented on the panning bass effect at the end of the song.

From there we switched to the turntable and immediately started with Gaia, again, for contrast. I have a MoFi Ultradeck with master tracker cartridge and PS Audio Stellar Phono. I had previously been having issue with my turntable and it wasn't sounding as good as the DAC to me. Now that I have everything dialed in more, that is no longer the case. As expected, Gaia on vinyl sounded much better, warmer and more natural.

Other artists we listened to on vinyl included Claypool Lennon Delirium "Little Fishes", Warren Zevon several tracks from "Excitable Boy", Nils Lofgrin "Keith Don't Go"(Quality Record Pressings UHQR version), Elton John "Someone Saved My Life Tonight", Chris Thile and Brad Mehldau "Scarlett Town", David Byrne several tracks from "Grown Backwards", Charles Bradley "Changes", Waylon Jennings "Omaha", Tom Waits "Take Care of All of My Children", Pink Floyd "Dark Side of The Moon"(First side), Paul Simon "I Know What I Know" and maybe some JJ Cale.

We listened from 10am until almost 3pm and I could've kept pulling records. It was an awesome day and I really had a blast. As always, I learned a LOT from JA. I really appreciate you taking time on one of your days off to come hang out. Thanks JA.

One thing I did forget to ask JA about after we finished listening was my dented tweeter. I am guessing I know what he is going to say but I don't want to put words in his mouth. JA- Thoughts on my dented tweeter? Should I worry about getting it repaired anytime soon? I honestly forgot to have him even look at it.

Thanks for anyone who made it this far. I just wanted to share the experience with all of you. Enjoy your weekends and your systems.

@prof 

Sorry about that! JA is Jafant.

Hello everyone! Its been far too long since I last checked in. I hope everyone is doing well and enjoying their Thiel speakers. I am glad to see the thread continuing to go strong. 

 

I was talking to jafant offline yesterday about my setup and I mentioned to him that I would be selling one of my REL Carbon Limited subwoofers. He suggested I put a comment here to help get the ball rolling so that is what I am doing. If you are looking for a sub or know someone who is please send them my ad. I appreciate any help and or interest in my sub or critique/criticism of the listing. Thanks!