Thiel Owners

Prof,
'I had a $999 sniping bid in, set to hit 4 sec before the auction of the SI1 sub integrator ended.  I don't like bidding early and bidding prices up.
i called and asked Rob about it.  He suggested that the px02 and px05, with the correct chips which they're running out of, match the Sub introduction perfectly to where Thiel's start to drop off (around 38 hz for the 2.4 and 2.7 as the woofers are the same).
Rob said Jim Thiel built and sold only a few hundred integrators at most, and some have come back for repairs that can't be done.  Some failures are obvious as in lights not matching settings and some must be listened for.  Since I have the px02 configured by Rob for my 2.4s I decided to pass.  If I were trying to match non-Thiels to the smartsub, I'd have taken the chance.
another thing to know about the SS1 and 2 is that Thiel has no replacement amplifiers.  A year ago they were going to develop a new sub with a compatible amp but that didn't happen.
if I had to start from scratch, I might look at REL.  Are we going to have to start a Go Fund Me to keep Rob and the service department open?  He's only 55 so could provide many of us service as long as we need.

Bob

PS, Prof,
did you note on EBay that someone was selling the coax driver for the 2.7/3.7 because they had to replace one under warranty and the color of the surround or something had changed.  That individual bought an extra so they would match.
Of course, if you leave your grills on it won't much matter.

Prof,

Thanks for the pricing info.  I think your timing is spot on given the not-so-pleasant (yet not surprising) news.

I've struggled for years about going down the path of adding some kind of DSP, but I just can't wrap my head around digitizing my analog setup, even if its just a small part of it.  Would be interested in hearing your impressions if you decide to take the jump.

Cheers,

David

I'm the one who won the eBay auction for the SI-1 integrator. Can't wait for it to arrive!

Prof.: Thiel crossovers can be used with non-Thiel subs. Setup may be somewhat less automatic than with Smartsubs, but no more and often less complicated than using non-Thiel crossovers. For example, the SI-1 makes it easy for non-experts to integrate any main speakers with Thiel Smartsubs, but it has essentially the same controls as the CR-1. Real differences: The SI-1 is fully balanced; the CR-1 is not (only its inputs/outputs are balanced). The SI-1 uses first-order crossovers; the CR-1 uses 4th-order crossovers.

It's also possible to use Thiel's passive PXO5 crossovers with non-Thiel subs. I'm temporarily using the PXO5 that previously fed my Thiel SW-1 to mate my  F112s in mono/augment mode with my CS3.7s. The JLA's integrate very well even though I haven't bothered to match levels for this temporary configuration. I did, however, use a rough calculation and the JLA phase controls to phase align the system. This yielded impressive improvements in soundstage and slam and, overall, the best sound ever from my system.

A simple and cost-effective solution for Prof's system, running the subs mono/augment, might be: (1) set up the JLA E110s for master/slave operation; (2) switch off the internal crossover on the master JLA; (3) install a PXO5 configured for your CS2.7s or 3.7s; (3) adjust the level on the master sub to taste (or use measurements). (4) use the polarity and phase controls on the master to phase align your system.

In this setup, the PXO5s handle everything other than level matching as intended. You'd need an adaptor to connect the XLR line-level PXO5 outputs to the RCA line-level inputs on your master sub. You can skip step 4, but you'd be missing a huge improvement.

Note: The 4th-order crossovers in the JLAs are not compatible with the 1st-order crossovers in Thiel speakers. In augment mode, the PXO5's should provide much better integration than anything you can achieve with the JLA internal crossovers.

Check out white papers on the sounddoctor website for tons of expert information on how to set up and integrate subs.

If you're looking for an active crossover, consider Marchand Electronics as a less expensive, but still audiophile grade, alternative to the JLA CR-1. The XM9 and XM44 series are very reasonably priced, but you have to swap plug-in modules to change the crossover frequency. The XM44 offers a fully balanced option that is not available with the CR-1. The XM66 series is functionally very similar to the CR-1 (no module swapping). If you can tolerate the pro audio appearance, you'll be very happy with the cost savings. I was leaning toward purchasing a fully balanced XM44 until the SI-1 came up for sale on eBay.

unsound,

I believe I measured for a Thiel sub on it’s side and decided against it - I think it was still a bit too big and I never could find a place in my room I’d want to put it, without crowding the room. The JL subs were very small, yet high quality, so they are really about my only option.

bobsjr4

Thanks for the info!

As to that mismatched Thiel coax driver, I do seem to remember seeing that add.  But wasn't that quite a while ago?  I can't find any add for that now.  A mismatch of surround/color wouldn't bother me as I always listen with the grill covers on.  (I'm not a fan of seeing speaker drivers when listening to music - my brain can't help mapping the sound to the visible drivers, so I "hear" high end stuff like cymbals as being "sound coming from those tweeters"...)