Thiel Owners


Guys-

I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!

Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
128x128jafant
Prof, thanks for the reference to Phil Bamberg. He is part of the picture and solution of the puzzle. Your quandary of 2.7 vs 3.7 shines a light on some design particulars of interest. The 3.7 has no electrolytics in any signal path, whereas the 2.7 has bypassed electrolytic midrange feeds and an unbypassed electrolytic in a tweeter shunt. Our target caps will surpass the 3.7 quality for both 2.7 and 3.7.

Of further interest is that later production 3.7s have Chinese made crossovers which seem to have some polyester caps where polypropylenes are specified. And those are built on printed circuit boards, whereas all 2.7s are Lexington made on point to point boards. I associate sonic "ease" with point to point implementation.

The purpose of this post is not to overwhelm with detail, but to share some parts of the emerging puzzle. I am hopeful of achieving significant improvements via parts quality and implementation improvements.

Best regards,
Tom
Note that I am aware that some might want to go farther afield with cost no object components and others may balk at the significant cost of my choices. My vision is to find affordable solutions that reach the next performance / cost plateau.

I will add that I think Tom Thiel’s choices are *very* sensible. The upgrades will almost certainly (can’t say for certain ‘til we listen!) yield a significant SQ improvement but without going beyond the budget of most serious listeners.

Left to my own devices, my choices would have been similar to Tom’s in some ways. I was honing in on a solution that would have added a substantial (30%) Clarity CMR bypass to CSA coax feeds. This would have been more expensive and not necessarily overall better than what Tom outlined. In his research, Tom has learned that certain bypass practices can have detrimental effects! Elsewhere, I was going to add small polypropylene bypasses to the extant caps. Tom’s solution is far better, replacing the electrolytics in the shunts with the custom 160V PPs. We are fortunate that Tom is able to work with Clarity to have this cap made to spec. An off-the-shelf solution would be very expensive and with ginormous caps that would be very difficult to fit.

These upgrades will not be inexpensive ($TBD). All XO parts are replaced - most caps are custom - except for Thiel’s custom 1 uF bypasses and the coils. As I wrote earlier, if I were to replace my CS2.4SE with something new I would start at something like a Vandy Quatro or Vivid B1; $15K speakers! After these upgrades, I suspect such a search would have to reach to something like the Vandy 5 Carbon, a $30K speaker. In other words, the CS2.4 is a seriously good speaker in stock form and optimizing its crossover should elevate its performance to the next tier (or beyond). Do I want to live with a speaker whose neutrality, transparency, and resolution exceed or rival anything up to $30K? And for the “only” cost of the upgrade? Hmmm, decisions, decisions ;^)

As Tom wrote, some owners may want to go even further. Earlier I linked to Jim Smith’s outboard XO for his Avantgardes featuring a rack of Dueland caps and resistors. Would that approach outperform what Tom Thiel has outlined? I hope so – that’s at least $20K in parts! But we’d have to listen to know for sure. To my thinking (and budget) that is not sensible for a CS2.4. Maybe you CS3.7 and 7.2 owners will choose to push the limits? But remember that Tom Thiel’s “base” upgrade is a notable upgrade even for those models.

later production 3.7s have Chinese made crossovers which seem to have some polyester caps where polypropylenes are specified. And those are built on printed circuit boards

My SEs also are on PCBs and with some MKT caps where Jim Thiel’s schematic specified PP. My pair was built in 2012 (the year Kathy Gornik sold Thiel Audio) and are among the last SEs built. @jafant I suspect your pair are similarly equipped. For us, Tom Thiel’s upgrade will probably be an even bigger jump in SQ than for owners of earlier SEs.


Thanks again for additional details -tomthiel.
Your hard work will certainly pay off once a prototype is generated. I can hardly await to see a finished product. Staying tuned.
Happy Listening!
Thank You - beetlemania
for the additional insight and price-point references. I can agree that the CS 2.4 is very good in stock form. The CS 2.4SE is excellent in stock form as well.  Moving up the chain to the 2.7/3.7, one will have to spend in the $20K neighborhood to better those models. You guys have sourced a few of the top competitors from other speaker companies that we can relate. It is good to learn that any Thiel can still compete no matter its age or vintage.
Staying tuned.
Happy Listening!
I would like to say to all Thiel owners on this thread
these are the most intelligent conversations I've seen on Audiogon .

For all of you that subscribe to The Absolute Sound
the magazine that gave me the dream to own a pair Thiel speakers.
In the May/June issue page 18  TAS Legacy  Thiel CS5 Loudspeaker,
they tell the world about Rob Gillum and Coherent Source Service and on the opposite page an ad for Cardas Audio the cabling that I use ,
also in this issue page 16 Future TAS my future turntable
 ( when I win the lottery )  by Merrill-Williams R.E.A.L. 101.3 ,
that would replace my Merrill Heirloom .

When I retire this summer I will be looking for the upgrade kit for 
the CS2.7 , I will also be contacting Steve McCormack 
to see if he has any suggestions for upgrading the DNA-250 amp 
and maybe I will upgrade the DAC and a lot of capacitors on my Carver 
SD/A 490 CD player .

Life is good and getting better
Rob