Thiel Owners


Guys-

I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!

Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
128x128jafant
bighempin

Enjoy a fun and safe trip picking up those CS 3.7 loudspeakers.
Take the Cable audition while you are on scene.  Happy Listening!
There is a sonic trait on the CS2.4 that I wonder if you agree.  Maybe Tom can provide his inputs.  

In speaker design the baffle is pretty important to the sound which has to do with diffraction which I won't go into detail here since it will just create an even opposing opinions.  Anyway, the CS2.4 has the coax fairly lower from the top of the speakers.  For comparison, the CS3.7 has the coax almost at the top with the aluminum cone on top.

When in a recording where there is a hard right or left mix, in the CS2.4, I do feel that the sound comes from the baffle which spoils the 3-D illusions somewhat.  In some of my designs, I place the tweeter right close to the top of the speaker so in such recording, the image flows more from the air as opposed from the baffle.

So in the CS2.4, the high freq. sound has to traverse the entire upper baffle so you hear the reflection from the baffle and not directly from the tweeter.  I suspect that Thiel may have had this in mind, therefore on the CS3.7 design, the coax is placed at the top of the baffle to create a better 3D illusions.

An example of baffle design which improves diffraction is employed by Avalon Acoustic which has the tweeter close to the top with the baffle swept back.  I think Thiel curved baffle such as the CS3.7 is even better but it will probably cost more to manufacture.


Can’t say I’ve noticed this trait, Andy2. Some songs with the mix in one channel seem to emanate well outside the bounds of the speakers. The CS2.4 does this at least as well as the CS1.6 and Vandy 2Ce Sig II. Just earlier this evening I did a double take as the image was a couple of feet left of the left channel even with my eyes open. I think this is this is more dependent on the recording than other factors, at least with designs that attempt to reduce baffle effects.

 I continue to be very impressed with SQ after my XO rebuild. If I’m in the hot seat, I can’t read with background music on - too distracting! The only sonic parameter that doesn’t quite match the very best I’ve heard is image density. Perhaps *that* is influenced by the baffle? But the TAD Ref One is among the best I’ve heard in that regard (and other regards!) and I don’t think anyone would accuse that model of having an innocuous baffle. 
Andy - the baffle is critically important for how the waveforms propagate into the room. Going back in history, common wisdom dictated the drivers be offset by differing amounts from all baffle edges so as to spread the diffractive effects out, over time. Thiel was an early originator of minimizing diffraction, first by absorption in the 03a and then by rounded baffle edges in the CS3 and beyond. We centered the drivers, like the mouth is centered in the head and a microphone diaphragm is centered in its structure.

There are many conflicting demands of driver placement geometry including unknown listener distance, reviewers ignoring the grille when it is a functional ingredient of diffraction control and so forth. Our seminal statement of the CS3, had the tweeter very high and equidistant L-R-T. The top baffle curve was completed by the top cross strut of the grille frame as were the sides to a lesser extent. Lots of time went into optimizing that system. But in use, the grille was often removed, including for reviewer testing, and the resultant diffraction was noted as a flaw in the design, never as a failure of the user - which left us all flabbergasted and Jim really angry.

As aside to that point. I remember the years-long comments by Larry Archibald, Stereophile publisher, regarding the "early" and "late" CS2s, and the latter's taming of upper range glare and roughness. He never admitted in print that he stubbornly listened to the CS2s for the first year without their sculpted grilles, which controlled edge diffraction as well as incorporated a shallow tweeter waveguide for limiting dispersion of the tweeter's low end to blend properly with the midrange. That blending is far more critical with the large-overlap first order slopes. Bottom line: there were no early or late CS2s, only eventual user cooperation with the design intent . . . and lots of confusion and mis-information in the marketplace.

Back to the point: tweeter placement evenly spaced to all edges including the top acts more like an ideal point source. Note that the CS3.7's industrial design is extremely polarizing and generally considered offensive. Only those adherents to form following function "get it" and either make their peace with it or actually love it. The driver height scheme is optimized for the broadest vertical listening window for seated listeners, dependent on crosspoint frequencies and driver dispersion characteristics.

So, Andy, even though the 2.4, like the earlier designs, does control diffraction very well, its lower tweeter creates a time discrepancy between side and top diffraction. That effect would be extremely subtle, such that I would be surprised if I could ever hear it. But, your ears are younger than mine.