2. amps-preamps
  3. 142193-89892

Thinking about upgrading, but wondering about diminishing returns

Hi folks,

I have mostly Conrad Johnson Gear-- LP260M SE mono blocks, with 8 kt120 tubes each.  These are SET amps that put out 270 wpc.  I have the Conrad Johnson  ET5 preamp, with a Telefunken 6922 tube, and a pair of EgglestonWorks Viginti speakers (their new take on the Andra's).  Phono stage is the Pass Labs XP-15.  For source material I have a Rega  RP10 with the Apheta2 cartridge, and the Oppo BDP105 (Modwright upgrades) CD player.  I have Audioquest Colorado interconnects (go easy here :) ) and Audioquest Oaks for speaker cable.  My listening room is 13 x 19, carpeted floor, drywall walls and ceiling (well insulated).  I set up with the equipment on the long wall, with me listening from the 13' side (with speakers in about 2 feet and about 8.5 feet apart).

I listen to a mix of vinyl and cd's; vinyl when I have several hours to listen quietly (and clean the records on the Clear Audio Matrix Pro Record Cleaning Machine).  I listen to CD's when I have less than an hour, and for when I work out.

I am thinking about upgrading a single component, probably my preamplifier, to a Conrad Johnson GAT2 or a Pass Labs XS preamp (solid state). My thought was that this will likely make the most improvement in soundstage, imaging and overall musicality.  A used GAT2 will be at least $14K and the Pass XS used is about $19K.   I am interested in hearing from those who have had experience with upgrades like this.  I am also wondering (as a middle class guy)  how close does this come to the law of diminishing returns?  Finally, is this the component you would upgrade, and if so, if you had a wide range of musical tastes-- mostly classical/full orchestra in vinyl and rock on CD's, which preamp would you select?

Please feel free to take a swipe at these questions, and also feel free to point out if you feel I should be asking different questions that will help increase my knowledge and advance the cause for others.

I am likely to go to an audio show sometime, but please don't suggest that I go and listen to the gear, as that's at least 200 - 400 miles, and I don't feel right about going to a brick and mortar store knowing that I will almost surely buy used.

Thanks in advance for whatever assistance you can provide.


Ag insider logo xs@2xliamowen
ggc
178 posts
 
I agree with those who suggest that you look into up grading your cabling.

AS an overall guide towards an investment strategy to achieving your goals of  improving your soundstage, imaging and overall musicality - Text Book - one should invest about 25-30% of the total budget into cabling/power delivery. Power is the most important foundation of your system.

I would say that the MRSP of what you have is upwards of $70K, which means that an investment of about $20k MRSP should have gone to towards that end of the budget.

By using the used market, you can definitely shave that $20K down substantially and probably fall into the budget you have for investing in an upgraded preamp. Ultimately getting a much better return on your investment. 

As far as Diminishing Returns - I believe that is purely based upon your personal goals. If your goal is purely financial then this is the wrong hobby for you. If you enjoy music and are looking to enrich your life with the artistry associated with audiophilia the better the return.  

As a fellow middle class guy I would say take your time, educate yourself on the products that are out there. Stay true to your goals and remember there is no one way to achieve them. Most of all be patience especially in dealing with a used market. AND ENJOY!!!

Check out:

Thales Cables - best signal/speaker cables for the $$$ period.
Also great Turntables.
http://www.tonarm.ch/en/products/accessoires

http://www.aaudioimports.com/ShowBrand.asp?hBrand=30

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649309042-thales-precision-interconnect-cables-rca-to-rca-15-met...

HB Cable Design
http://www.hb-cable-design.com/1_english/ps_2.html

High Fidelity Cables
http://www.highfidelitycables.com/products/power/ct1u/

https://www.audiogon.com/brands/high-fidelity-cables

Stage 3 Concepts - Power Chords are their strong suit.
http://www.stage3concepts.com/PRODUCTS_main_page.htm

Analysis Plus
https://www.analysis-plus.com/

Oyaide MTB 4 or 6  R1 Power Distributor
http://www.oyaide.com/ENGLISH/index.html

Audience
http://audience-av.com/conditioners/ar6/

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649484119-audience-ar6t-power-conditioner-wo-power-cord/



 
drastic's avatar
drastic
18 posts
 
There are lots of ideas here.  Maybe, buried in all these suggestions, is the one that will transform your system as if by magic.  But how will you know? 

Not mentioned is how your room is treated.  The room is the most important component.  If you haven't treated it, then start there before you change the gear at all.  I promise you will hear the difference.

chattaudio's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
chattaudio
35 posts
 
+1 for going to an audio show.  I've only been to one - RMAF, but it was so worth it, and for several reasons.  First - you get to check out a ton of systems, starting from $1,500 all the way to high six digits.  Second, you get to find out where you are at (in non-absolute and somewhat subjective terms, but still - unless you have access to unlimited amounts of cash you will never be able to setup all these systems in your house!).  I was pleasantly surprised to find out how good my system sounds vs. quite a few others with twice the money.  I was also caught off guard how some systems under $10K really pulled me in.  I look for a good value (best price/performance ratio) when it comes to a system setup rather than having a "Star component A" that makes it all worth while.   Third, you get to meet a lot of cool people and tap the vast pool of knowledge and experience.  All sorts of cool giveaways and raffles are held throughout the show, I saw a guy win a pair of $5K Nordost interconnects!  Go, have fun!
joemarsh
29 posts
 
Lots of good responses here. I agree with most of these and wouldn’t really add much. i too have an all CJ system that lives in my living room. I do not have the luxury of having a dedicated sound room. I recently removed all the furniture from the room and was shocked by how amazing the system sounded. Made me realize that room treatment was holding me back. Now what to do....
larry5729's avatar
larry5729
1,008 posts
 
I am a novice entering the audiophile world.  This said, I don't know how upgrading and spending so much money on speaker cables can make that much of a difference in sound.  I wonder if someone could explain this to me, as I have read several articles where the author said expensive speaker cables are a waste of money.  However, before considering expensive speaker cable, I would be more inclined to purchase more expensive speakers.

I agree with some of you.  Going to an audio show to listen to various systems will certainly help you to make your decision.  However, many of the vendors who are demonstrating their gear are doing so in inferior listening rooms.
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