Thoughts on moving from a 1200G to Sota Saphire or above

"@bfoura, I can’t say if $3500 is a fair price or not without looking at the actual stuff. An SP10-Mk2 with its original black volcanic glass plinth in good condition commands $3k+ in general. But it should be cosmetically and functionally very good. In general it is definitely a better sounding TT than 1200G. It will hold its price too. A good tonearm is needed, that’s another story."

Totally disagree. While the sp-10 mk2 is a great table in its own right, its not a better sounding turntable than the 1200G. Sorry Bud. It’s different, not better. Things can very well be system dependent. As for idlers, they do have a unique driving sound to them, no question, when they are working properly. Would I give up a 1200G for one? Probably not. They are not worth the headache. My friend has one and its great when its working, which is not often. It's still not better than the 1200G.  

In all honesty, I would not bother with any belt or idler at this point unless I was going to get, say an Air Force One, then I would say yes, its better.  Maybe and older vintage upper range Micro Seiki.  An SP-10Mk 3.  

bfoura, I see the direct drive gang is jumping all over you. Try getting your old SP-10 with a loose bearing or failing servo fixed. The Sota you can always have rebuilt and updated/improved. Can you have an old SP10 updated to modern specs? 
Tech Das, SAT, Dohmann and others suspend and isolate their turntables for a reason. Sota developed the first stable suspended turntable, a design that has remained essentially unchanged for 40 years. Sota marketed the first vacuum clamping turntable and have refined the design over 35 years. It works as advertised and is dead silent. It's vacuum pump/regulated power supply is all of 11" X 7" X 5", small in comparison to most. Just these two features put it's performance miles above what you can get with an old SP10 tossed on a chunk of wood, slate or granite with a record weight. Yes, direct drive tables can be very accurate in regards to speed. That characteristic is meaningless relative to good belt drives in the context of paying records which are extraordinarily inaccurate. I just got two new Blue Note records, Lee Morgan's The Rajah and Ambrose Akinmusire's On the Tender Spot of Every Calloused Moment. Both were pressed off center. You can watch the tonearm swing back and forth slightly with each revolution. This creates wow far in excess of any properly functioning turntable as do changes in elevation.
But, hook a Sota and an SP10 up to an oscilloscope and you will see all sorts of rubbish on the SP 10's trace that is absent from the Sota's. Most of this is at very low frequencies. Put the Sota's dust cover down and it will get even quieter. Mark Dohmann related to me in an email that he is working on an isolation dust cover for his Helix tables. 
The performance gains from isolation and physical control of the record far exceed those of what you would gain over a trivial increase in speed stability. How good is the Sota in regards to speed stability? All I can say is that once the table is playing the speed does not budge down to 1/1000th of a revolution per minute under any circumstance. The Eclipse/Roadrunner drive displays speed down to 1/1000 of an RPM. No strobe required. 

  

@tzh21y I have had the 1200G, Sp10 Mk2 & Sp10 Mk3 (Dobbins), in my system, back to back. They are not different sounding. They are extremely similar with one better than the other primarily in terms of dynamics. In fact I would say the 1200G did not seem to give away too much to even the Sp10 Mk3 in terms of resolution. But the Mk3 just has a much bigger, grander, full range, full scale sound like the big boys of analogue do. The 1200G sounds like a juvenile. Nothing to feel wrong about that because for the money, it delivers a lot.

Regarding idlers, I agree. Unless one has a very well done idler TT, it is not up there.

Not a big fan of SP10 mk2, but I do agree with Atma and Chak that the OEM rubber mat is a negative and should be replaced. I think the top line Technics G series with a selected mat might outperform the mk2, but I have no experience to corroborate my hunch. For that matter, the felt mat on my Star Sapphire was also not optimal, but vacuum hold down required it. Comparing Mk2 to a full up Cosmos with Eclipse is kind of a cheap shot, IMO. The price difference is cavernous. You could add a Minus K to most vintage DDs and still be well under the cost of the fully equipped Cosmos. But I’ll not argue that the Cosmos is not excellent.


The “unrepairable” tag on the older Technics won’t wash. All needed parts, tech data, and schematics are readily available, and there are several competent repair shops. As to the bearing, caveat emptor. I’ve never owned a vintage deck that needed more than to clean and lube the bearing, and DD bearings are likely to last longer than a belt drive bearing, because no side force.

@lewm 
“Not a big fan of SP10 mk2”

Might you elaborate a little ?