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  3. 161137-245

TONEARM DAMPING : DAMPED OR NOT ? ? USELESS ? ? WELCOMED ? ?

Dear friends: This tonearm critical subject sometimes can be controversial for say the least. Some audiophiles swear for non damped tonearms as the FR designs or SAEC or even the SME 3012 that is not very well damped in stock original status.

Some other audiophiles likes good damped tonearms.


In other thread a gentleman posted:


"  If a cartridge is properly matched to the tonearm damping is not required. " and even explained all what we know about the ideal resonance frequency range between tonearm and cartridge ( 8hz to 12hz. ). He refered to this when said: " properly matched to the tonearm ".


In that same thread that a Triplanar tonearm owner posted:


" This is the one thing about the Triplanar that I don't like. I never use the damping trough...... I imagine someone might have a use for it; I removed the troughs on my Triplanars; its nice to imagine that it sounds better for doing so. "


At the other side here it's a very well damped tonearm:


https://audiotraveler.wordpress.com/tag/townshend/


Now, after the LP is in the spining TT platter ( everything the same, including well matched cartridge/tonearm.  ) the must critical issue is what happens once the cartridge stylus tip hits/track the LP grooves modulations.

The ideal is that those groove modulations can pass to the cartridge motor with out any additional kind of developed resonances/vibrations and that the transducer makes its job mantaining the delicated and sensible signal integrity that comes in those recorded groove modulations.

 That is the ideal and could be utopic because all over the process/trip of the cartridge signal between the stylus tip ride and the output at the tonearm cable the signal suffers degradation (  resonances/vibrations/feedback ) mainly developed through all that " long trip " .


So, DAMPING IS NEED IT AT THE TONEARM/HEADSHELL SIDE OR NOT?


I'm trying to find out the " true " about and not looking if what we like it or not like it is rigth or not but what should be about and why of that " should be ".


I invite all of you analog lovers audiophiles to share your points of view in this critical analog audio subject. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT?


Thank's in advance.



Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.






Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,077 posts
 
Dear @bukanona @stringreen  FRIENDS: 

"  As I do have this Jelco 750EB with "top cup" - I can say that if not damped it's rather inferior with high compliance cartridges (no silicon oil in cup)

With heavyweights/low compliance like SPU difference isn't so obvious, it takes time to understand that damping (silicon oil in cup) is better.

With high compliance difference is night and day. "

Very important and critical  use of the key in those statements:

"  it takes time to understand that damping (silicon oil ...) is better.  ""

Damping always will works is we give its time to settle down in our ears/brain and important our each one attitude: we have to be willing to test it with out earlier judgements.

R.




Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,077 posts
 
Dear @bdp24  : I found out the Cransfield patent on the tonearm/TT design that was licensed to M.Townshend. I don't read it yet.

Btw, when Max started to sale it the owners read it as manufacturer name: Cransfield and not Townshend.

R.
antinn
395 posts
 
Dear @rauliruegas,

Thank-you for the forum references.  My choice of the word lifeless was more in haste then any proper assessment.  I found the softer rubber Technics mat to put a soft-focus on the music; the small intricate details were missing; essentially the system was now over-damped.  

Of the audio magazines - as you state, for sure Audio has/had the most technically founded (justified) papers.  

Otherwise - one more good paper http://www.laudioexperience.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Bruel-Kjaer-Audible-Effects-of-Mechanical-..., and this one is specific to measured  Audible Effects of Mechanical Resonances in Turntables and it is an interesting read.

Stay well
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,077 posts
 
Dear @antinn  : Other unexisted " lifeless " I experienced was when I changed the attenuators in my dual mono Essential 3180 phonolinepreamp that original came with Elma discrete true hole resistors in a perfectly matched then I changed by same Elma Swiss attenautors but instead of tue hole discrete resistors now are SMD ones.

When I listened I really was disappointed because that " lifeless " and lower SPLs " feeling ".
Again, I was wrong, I gave to my ears/brain some time and understand it that, again, thhere was no lifeless but a lot lower distortion levels that between other things permits me to listen SPL's way higher than before with out distress or image collapse.

Latetr on I will post some really interesting information on what you posted and that I have .

@lewm  , another way important advantage and true really high improvement using the 20.6s input signal as a high pass filter was that the overall signal quality level had that improves due not only for the better input cap but the extremely way better input resistor where I used/use the Z foil naked  TX2575 with tolerance of 0.01%. Jus great and outstanding high pass filter/input signal resolution in the amps.

R.

antinn
395 posts
 
Dear @rauliruegas,

FWIW - when I tried the Technics 3mm rubber plater mat, I stayed with it for a few months - I know it can take that long before I get over the newness factor and declare it good or otherwise. But, here is what happened - after a while I found myself listening to my digital sources more than my analog. Houston We have Problem. My analog source by design is suppose to be ’better’ than my digital source (I gave-up on investing any $$$ in digital). That’s how profound but subtle was the change. The new change in mat material (now ~4 weeks ago) has changed it back - analog is once again preferred. Like it not, the sub-conscious does have a vote. Who was it - Harry Pearson of the Absolute Sound - who said to the question - What is good sound? You will know it when you hear it.

Stay well,
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