Tonearm mount on the plinth or on Pillar ?

Copernican, Copernican, wherefore art thou Copernican ?
 
Ground hog day come late in 2016 ...
those familiar with that thread know what I am talking about.  

But with some changes this time around - more direct experiences. 
I sometimes wonder why people are on these forums. Do you guys ever think about it ? For me it makes my morning coffee time more interesting and takes my mind off of bad investments. Did you know the chunks of brass from the billets, that I bought for my pillars years ago have gone up in value......... a lot. Who knew..... 

Now I can understand for folks like Atma Sphere who are in the audio business, that the forums represent a way of promoting their products when they state their opinions. And since the OP Pani has already made his decision......I figured lets have some fun. You guys know I like visuals. Visuals are international regardless of the language spoken.   

So up first.
Here you have not the amps and preamps, but the Belt drive Atma-Sphere turntable and Tri-Planar tonearm, that Atma-Sphere (Ralph) speaks about in this thread.

http://www.atma-sphere.com/Products/Atma-208#

I was not aware of this product offering btw. I don't get around much these days.  
 

Another interesting find.  Reed used to make an armpod.
  
I believe Nandric (Nikola) had the first one ever made by Vidmantas. I was looking for the resonance research data that was prominently displayed on his website, which showed a visual of the different resonances and their paths (integrated versus isolated parts). The info had a lot of cool lines and colors differentiating the two, with information clearly supporting the armpod.  Visual theory at its finest. 

Well guess what. The research data is gone, as is the armpod, as a product offering from Reed from what I can tell.

And now Reed sells a full integrated turntable.

http://www.reed.lt/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/DSC_9267_hi.jpg

So a business move ....or something else ?

Hmmm......the search for Reed armpod also revealed an expired audiogon ad for someone selling his Reed armpod ................ :^)

***************************************************

Halcro (Henry)

You keep focusing on the pods themselves....

I am not reading into Atmaspheres' comments as you are. or maybe I am reading into his comments wrong, in which case let him correct me. After all Canadians speak a different language from those in the USA, eh ? Misunderstandings can happen.  
 
What I am understanding is based on his direct experiences with metallic bearing turntables and tonearms - in this case an original but modded Empire turntable, and Triplanar tonearm; he has concluded there is bearing movement (outside of normal movement) in both of them - this being the bearing structure itself of the platter system and tonearm. And therefore to put them to stand independently is a bad thing. So in this regard showing a picture of the pillar/armpod is not necessary as it is what is on the pillar/armpod itself - the tonearm and its bearing structure - that is the problem. AtmaSphere (Ralph) if I am wrong about this please correct me and good luck on your lathe project.

A gimbal design uses separate closed-cage bearings to allow lateral and vertical movement

while unipivots sit the tonearm on the point of a needle, allowing free movement in all directions

Maybe a discussion of the movements and therefore resonances of these types of bearing types would shed more light, as it relates to the pillar / armpod. What do you guys think ? 

fwiw - I don' t use metal bearings in my main turntable and tonearm. If anyone here reading has direct extended experience in their own rooms with magnetic platter bearings, and captured air bearing tonearms; I would be happy to share info. with you here or elsewhere.

Cheers

Hi Fleib,

In his last post, 1st paragraph, Ralph clearly stated that the vibration is likely to be airborne.

Also, if I have read it correctly, Ralph's arm pod was on an antivibration platform together with the lathe, so I would assume most of the structure borne vibration had been filtered.

Ralph, please correct me if my understanding is wrong.

As a now departed soul was keen to point out,

"More data less wank" 

Dear @atmasphere : According with my very high ignorance level there are some things that goes against your " scientific " test:

- as @halcro posted one of your premises is that exist movement in the stand alone pillar. Why don't choose as premise that the pillar has no movement? what could happen at your scientific/theory?

- I have a premise too in my subjective " science ": that the holding cartridge tonearm must be aisled from the self TT " movements/vibrations " and air borne effects in order that those non tonearm " movements " can affect/produce additional distortions/colorations to the cartridge performance.

- according with your science my premise go against your theory because the tonearm has to vibrate exactly as the TT platter. So, if we have an integrated tonearm pod that does not vibrates at all then is wrong and add " colorations " by the cartridge.

- according that we need that the integrated tonearm pod/base has those same platter bearing vibrations. So, a well damped/dead one integrated arm pod is wrong and is wrong because till today exist no TT dead silent beairng platter.

- So, I infere from your science that it's better not to aisle/fuly damps the integarted arm pod. I don't know what I'm missing here but I'm not convinced that is better if vibrates evenly with the platter that if that arm pod stays deadly.

- other of my premises is that the cartridge must be " aisle " from vibrations as we can. Now, the ideal scenario for a cartridge ridding job is to make that job with no single vibrations, this is imposible to have/exist.

- starting from that ideal scenario next step could be to put at minimum all non-self vibraions that affect the cartridge job.
The bearing platter vibrations always affect the overall cartridge job as the tonearm/cartridge resonance frequency and the own tonearm additional vibrations and the feedback of all those vibrations and now we " need " that the integrated tonearm pod stays vibrating evenly with the bearing platter and this represent additional vibrations/colorations that are produced when in touch with all the other already generated vibrations because here exist a delay time on those same kind of vibrations and its amplitude are not exactly the same.

My God !!!!!!

We need additional integrated arm pod vibrations. Why and external dead silent arm pod is different of a dead integrated arm pod? 

is it better/worst a dead silent arm pod integrated or not? or is better the one that vibrates evenly with the bearing TT platter with all those additional vibrations I talked about??


For you and the other advocates to integarted arm pod things are so " easy " but for me and other gentlemans are not. Please re-read all the @fleib posts where I agree with.

Vibrations or dead silent?, that's the question.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.