Transformer stepup size

Raul, after the frequency with which you have insisted that one MUST use only a preamp with a built-in high-gain phono stage, perhaps you would extend your comments and cite some specific examples of such peramps that have proved worthy in your experience.

A fellow A'goner was using a high gain phono stage. Just for kicks he borrowed my BentAudio stepups and tried them into the MM stage of his preamp. That setup blew his high gain phono stage out of the water. He literally had it up for sale hear in less than a week.

There is no "always" on this issue. It depends on the components being compared, and possibly on other components in the system as well. As '4yanx' said, how about some specific recommendations instead of dogma.

I've used Mitchell cotter passive, Counterpoint SA-2 tube active, Music reference RM-4 tube active, ARC MCP-2 SS active, supex passive, Ortofon 3000 passive on various preamps ( ARC sp-11 MKII, counterpoint SA-5000, Marantz 7-c, music reference RM-5, HK Citation I ) and found very different results. However, the external step up devices are more dynamic overall than the build-in MC stage in SP-11 and SA5000. I prefer the tube active step up like the SA-2 and the RM-4 over the rest. The RM-4 has the best dynamic overall. The SA-2 is not as "see through" but it has slight warmer and relax tone compared to the RM-4 ( thx to tube retifier.)

However, if I have $$$$ to buy the super expensive reference high gain phono stages then maybe I don't need the step up.

I have not found a better MC stage than HK citation I + music reference RM-4 combo for the VDH black beauty so far.

Doug,

I too think that there are always tradeoffs:
The high-gain devices are far not linear and surely complex. Designing a high-gain phonostage is a challenge of carefull selection of parameters and feedback but in return still even for budget it's better choice than step-up especially in low-end resolution that even a very good quality transformer won't have...

Just to chime in quickly here..I recently added a Bent Audio MU SUT 1:10 ratio(20db gain) for My Dynavector 17d2Mk2..Using a ARC PH3 SE with the fixed 54bd gain. Although the Dyna is now 0.26mV output(up from 0.23) it drove the PH3 SE okay and sounded good. But, without the MU SUT, it lacked the dynamics that brings the Dynavector to life, Better transparency, dynamics, bass is tighter and more weight. Once broken in, and properly loaded for the Dyna..the Bent Audio is far and away better sounding than the ARC alone without any negative downside IMO...Cheers!