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Transmission Line Bass

As a long time proponent of good bass without subs, I like tinkering with different ways of approching the age old problem of recreating all energy below 100Hz.
Seriously, if you look at loudspeaker responses, everything seems goes to hell just below that point, swinging wildly in output response, almost independent of many of the typical factors that would be indicators of performance.
So, the question.
Who among us has had extensive Transmission Line Bass Experience in listening, (like me with the IMF's in days gone by, with Bud Fried being a wonderful mentor to me).
In Jim Thiel's lab, one time he told me 'candidly' that Transmission Line Designs 'in theory' don't work. (Another discussion for another time). But he, like me was a bass freak of the first order, loving a rich full bottom end, hence some of his equalized designs early on. They were an all out attempt to bend the laws of physics.
So, what do we think of Transmission Line bass--so, if you're familiar with the sonics though actual listening, and can express first hand opinions let us hear your impressions of the differences between ported, passive radiators and transmission.

Thanks in advance...

Larry
lrsky
lrsky OP
1,118 posts
 
Dodgealum,
You do know I wasn't saying that emperically, you didn't reference live music, right? It's just that very few people really have that inner reference, and sonic memory. I liken it to perfect pitch, or relative pitch...rare and unusual talent. I'm fortunate, in that I can hear, and remember...your comments are far from being unusual, hence the question. Its not a 'mild' complaint, almost a 'love it or hate it', kind of thing, so far, and you expressed a very valid, "I don't like it", which should probably should be, "I don't like WHAT I've heard SO FAR." I personally LOVED it, and was a little disappointed in the electronic sound of the equalized THIEL 03as that replaced my beloved IMF's, back in the day. I became accustomed to it, sort of like having a wife who smokes--you learn to look past it, I suppose. Older now, I have a smaller window of 'looking past', and want to really do it right.
My LSA's have good bass, and with the mosterous Air Core's that we used, and great caps, very tuneful. But, I want to move to the 'next and better thing'.
I'll tell you what's wierd...is how 'right' the bass on the A-1 Sound Labs was--no cabinet noises, obviously, perfect phase, perfect time alignment--and it just sounded right. Maybe I want an electrostatic with that kind of bass response...I DID love it. They are so damn underrated in EVERY WAY!

Larry
lrsky OP
1,118 posts
 
Csmgolf,
See, your comments are very 'spot on' as to what I experienced. See Dodge, another, like it to offset. This is what's maddening.

Larry
listener57
730 posts
 
I enjoy listening to
Clements RT-7
with its version of transmission line bass and ribbon tweeter.
Sounds very satisfying over a few decades.
Positively thrilling on good recordings of music from challenging opera and organ right on down down to solo vocalist, piano or violin.
I also go to a lot of live performances.
A home system properly reproducing a great recording is not usually able to reproduce what I actually hear (or, heard) in the audience at live performance. Still, we all can know and enjoy great sound when we hear it in the home setting.
Hearing pitch accurate, musical TL bass that subjectively "keeps up" with a ribbon tweeter is a speaker designer feat, for sure.
Congratulations to Philip R. Clements. He is worthy of mention in the same breath with other elite speaker designers.
coffeey's avatar
coffeey
363 posts
 
Clements 207 D I's and a pair of 107 D I's outstanding clean bass.
sounds_real_audio
1,012 posts
 
I think that the most important improvement in the bass when using a Transmission Line is not so much the depth of the bass but the quality.. I attribute that to the face that the rear waves off the back of the driver is not just absorbed by the MDF (in most speakers) but rather has an outlet. This must reduce the resonance considerably. I remember when I built the Fried's using Bud's 12" driver I asked him if it would be better to use MDF the the plywood in his plans, (they were do it yourself) speakers. He told me that he didn't feel any resonance in his cabinets that were made from plywood.

Of course I ignored him, who wouldn't, he was just an old man, and I was young and much smarter then he was... then the wisdom of his choice came to light when I had to carry the speakers up stairs from my shop in the basement.

Larry lets us know how your experiment goes.

Jim
Sounds Real Audio
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