Tubes Do It -- Transistors Don't.


I never thought transistor amps could hold a candle to tube amps. They just never seem to get the "wholeness of the sound of an instrument" quite right. SS doesn't allow an instrument (brass, especially) to "bloom" out in the air, forming a real body of an instrument. Rather, it sounds like a facsimile; a somewhat truncated, stripped version of the real thing. Kind of like taking 3D down to 2-1/2D.

I also hear differences in the actual space the instruments are playing in. With tubes, the space appears continuous, with each instrument occupying a believable part in that space. With SS, the space seems segmented, darker, and less continuous, with instruments somewhat disconnected from each other, almost as if they were panned in with a mixer. I won't claim this to be an accurate description, but I find it hard to describe these phenomena.

There is also the issue of interest -- SS doesn't excite me or maintain my interest. It sounds boring. Something is missing.

Yet, a tube friend of mine recently heard a Pass X-350 amp and thought it sounded great, and better in many ways than his Mac MC-2000 on his Nautilus 800 Signatures. I was shocked to hear this from him. I wasn't present for this comparison, and the Pass is now back at the dealer.

Tubes vs. SS is an endless debate, as has been seen in these forums. I haven't had any of the top solid state choices in my system, so I can't say how they fare compared to tubes. The best SS amp I had was a McCormack DNA-1 Rev. A, but it still didn't sound like my tube amps, VT-100 Mk II & Cary V-12.

Have any of you have tried SS amps that provided these qualities I describe in tubes? Or, did you also find that you couldn't get these qualities from a SS amp?
kevziek

Showing 5 responses by zaikesman

Based on what I have heard, I find your generalizations to be very accurate as far as they go. I, however, have also not heard the best new SS amps very much at all. From what I have heard, though, I would add that very good SS can give qualities such as transient cleanliness, tactile bass, image density, and even-handed frequency response that will leave many tube amps in second place in those areas. The best price-no-object SS amps I ever personally listened to were the ML 33H monos. It was only a brief audition, but I was left with the feeling that I had never heard any amps just so completely get out of the way without leaving a trace of an artifact behind. It was like listening to air. But then again, neither have I listened to the tubed amps in this price range. In my own system, I only finally became happy when I switched to tubes, and there I stay for the time being.
Detlof, I agree with Clueless that CDs omit information which analog preserves, but I wonder about your take on interstitial silence - LP playback does contribute a certain minimum noise floor which is much higher than digital (or a master tape). Is it your feeling that you would less enjoy LPs if they sounded the same, except for displaying a similarly "black" lack of background noise as CDs? Do you need this noise to in effect "bias" your ears, or would the more info-rich analog medium be even better if this noise could somehow be removed while maintaining the rest? I have found that the masking effect can be a funny thing: you don't consciously realize when it's going on, but you do as soon as the previously masked noise is removed from the source, system, or listening environment. Shouldn't the ambient background noise captured by the microphones ideally be the only noise floor transmitted or imposed in a hypothetically perfect recording/playback chain?

To me, the tube analogy here is with low-level high-gain tube stages, mainly in the preamp and/or phonostage. I have now configured my own system to the polar opposite of the more conventional tube front-end/SS power amplification scenario mentioned several times above. From having a pure-tube amplification chain (was all C-J), I have gone to an SS phonostage (the op-amp based Camelot Tech Lancelot) and preamplification (the FET based InnerSound), while retaining all-tube power amplification (VTL MB-185 Sig's). Yes, I do find that the lowered noise floor renders my LPs with a little more of the "blackness" of digital, and I consider it a good thing. (BTW, although my digital rig doesn't feature this, I might not be opposed to considering a tube buffered output stage for the CD source, if it isn't a high-gain stage.) This set-up represents a quite recent change in my system along with a new listening room (which is quieter than the old one), and I am still evaluating what, if anything, I will have lost if I choose to remain without tube preamplification. But I'll tell you one thing I do not miss, the constantly encroaching paranioia caused by all the spurious "contributions" courtesy of them cute li'l fire-bottles.
Unsound, virtually any PA system anyone in this country would have heard a live event amplified through in the last 30+ years would be solid state (this, BTW, has almost nothing to do with sound per se, and everything to do with lightweight, cool-running, durable, and inexpensive high-power capability). I have owned many tubed guitar and bass amps, but if this is what you're referring to, the analogy is inherently flawed. Such amps are to be considered part of the instrument, and as such participate intimately in the creation of the sound - not the reproduction of it. (I do think, however, that being a player who has used both tubed and SS instrument amplifiers extensively will give one a valuable insight into how these technologies can respond differently to the music's touch.)
Well, Asa, I guess there's no denying that some of our brains 'Do It' more than others...

(Geez, this is beginning to resemble a Nike ad!)

To paraphrase the late Dr. Bronner (one of the only lunatic philosophers I actually have a *practical* use for, if you know what I mean - no need, I'm sure, to remind audiophiles what cleanliness is next to), Mind-Brain = All-One!

(No, this doesn't mean I don't think that there's actually an objective reality out there [or in here]; if I believe anything, I believe that. It's just that we can't know but an infitesimal fraction of it.)

Oh, and FWIW, I always do my level best to have no God(s) at all.
Rather than just reacting with "What a load" after reading Asa's post (no offense intended, Asa, but I do not buy your premises, inductions, or conclusions - sorry!), I thought, "I should instead try to think of something within it, or suggested by it (to me), that I can agree with."

As it relates to the header of this post, that is. And this is what I came up with:

It's not tubes - or transistors - that 'Do It'; It's your brain.

:-)