turntable upgrade VPI or CLEARAUDIO?


I currently have a Well Tempered Classic V turntable with the graphite arm. I am running a Clearaudio Discovery cartridge into an Accoustec PH1P phono stage.

When playing records, I have the feeling that the Bass and transient attack is "muddy", or slow, and I seem to be missing the pace of the music. I have very good frequency responce, both low and high, but the detail is just not there.

My question is, is it better to look at a VPI TNT, or Clearaudio Reference turntable, to clean up the tempo and pace of my music? I know that I am looking at spending 4-5,000 dollars to make the upgrade(if I can locate a suitable used model here on agon) and I wonder if this would be money well spent.

For reference, here is my system:

Well Tempered Classic V turntable
Accoustec PH1P phono stage
Transparent Ultra Phono cable
Transparent Ultra XL cable, phono to preamp
Krell KAV 300i pre-amp
Transparent Ultra XL cable, preamp to amp
Krell KSA 250 amp
Transparent Super XL cable, amp to speakers
Hales REvelation 3 speakers

Thanks in advance, Brad
bfuehrer
I completely agree with Focusedfx. Arm damping of the Well-Tempereds is absolutely critical for success with these tables.
Neither of your alternative table choices can compete in the qualities of tempo and pacing, with your current WTC when it's properly adjusted and the arm damping matched to your cartridge's compliance.
Detailing should also improve to a degree as a result of arm setup but also care in isolation and resonance management can lead to significant benefits in resolution as well as improved pace,timing & dynamic inflection if a rigid,rapid dissipation/evacuation approach is employed.

Regards,
Ken Lyon
GreaterRanges/Neuance
I have owned every version of the Well Tempered table over the years from the very first ones produced. These are exceptional tables and I would not be in too big of a hurry to upgrade. The arm damping does make a difference, but easy adjustments will only be achieved with the Reference arm. I had the Reference plinth before the Reference arm was available. A later upgrade to the Reference arm was a stunning improvement particularily in the bottom octaves. With the budget you've allowed you could easily pick up a used Reference table and arm or you could just put a Reference arm on your Classic. Personally, if you've got the bucks and are really into vinyl I'd go for the Reference table and arm. That table is a thing of beauty. The VPI and Clearaudio will not necessarily be an improvement, just different. One additional thing I would mention is to consider trying the Grado Reference cartridge. I switched from a Van den Hul Grasshopper to this cartridge (mine is the original low output version at 1mV) on the recommendation of Carl Smith at Transparent and another friend with the same table. The difference was notable in my system and an improvement over the much more expensive Grasshopper in my system. This is a perfect match for the Well Tempered arm and extremely musical. Synergistic. The folks at Transparent have tried every kind of cartridge regardless of cost on this table and this is the one they recommend. Hope this helps. My system is as follows:

Well Tempered Reference w/Grado Reference (1mV)
Audio Research PH3 Phono Preamp
Pass Labs Aleph P (remote version) Preamp
Bryston 4B-SST (amazing amp that replaced a pair of BEL 1001 MK3A's)
Aerial 10T Loudspeakers
Cardas Golden Hexlink 5C Speaker Cables
Image Reference Interconnects
Dodson DA-217 Mk2 DAC
CEC TL-2 Transport
API Power Wedge 116 Power Line Conditioner
Set of 3 Argent Room Lenses
muddy bass can be caused by having your speakers too close to your speakers(feedback). this is a problem with turntables that don't have a suspension system. Some people even put thier turntable in another room.
Fluctuating line voltage can cause speed variations. Check voltage with a voltmeter. Careful,we can't afford to lose any audiophiles. Maybe you have a dealer nearby who wil lend you a power line conditioner.
Before you spend your money be sure you nailed down the tt as your problem.
Lastly, I don't know about clearaudio but VPI offers an elctronic flywheel. Niether turntable has a serious suspension system. A sota cosmso while not perfect at speed is essentially immune to feedback. Good Luck!
Thanks for the help on this matter. I don't have a copy of the owner's manual, so I called and spoke with Stanalog a while back. I think that I must not have the damping correctly set for the Clearaudio Discovery cartridge to work up to potential. Any help in getting the damping level set would be greatly appreciated.

Also, my table has the 3 layer plinth, with the graphite armtube tonearm. I am thinking that I might have the arm overdamped, hence the slow bass?

Thanks again, Brad