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Turntables New vs Used

Thought I would post this as possible food for thought. Have been in this hobby since 1957 and have owned a great many tables both new and used. My first audiophile table was a Dual 1019 and it has evolved from there.

I deal a lot in turntables both new and used, sort of a hobby business. With that in mind in recent years there has been several new tables to hit the market such as those from Music Hall,Project, and so on. Not all but most of the tables in the sub $1,000.00 range are just horrid to say the least. For what one pays in this category,one can find true stellar turntables in the used market.

Used tables from Sota,VPI and Rega will clearly outperform anything from Music Hall, Project and others.

This is not meant to disparage Music Hall or Project or others of the same category. But when one truly looks into what is available in the used market,it becomes readily apparent that the higher end used tables will sonically be superior to the new offerings.

I know for the last few months have had several of the Music Hall and Project tables as well as others come and go through the door.

To be candid there is no black art or voodoo science in turntable design. Physics and Geometry are basic law and are absolute with debate not being possible.

But many of these new tables have seem to have forgotton these basic laws and some of the new tables are pure dreck and I am being kind there.

Turntables from VPI,Sota,Rega,Nottingham,Bluenote,Clearaudio,JA Michell,and Simon Yorke offer tables that firmly place them among the best in the world,with sound engineering principles.

Plus the upgrade path is clearly there for future sonic improvements as materials and science come about.

In addition the price one will pay for one of the used tables make these some of the best bargains for today and tomorrow. However with all things used do make sure of whom you get it from and that you are getting what you pay for.

Don't overlook many of the excellent direct drive used tables from Denon,Kenwood,Yamaha,Technics and others. But do concentrate on thier upper end models forgoing the lower model line up.

All in all the current used market represents far greater value than most of the mass produced new tables.

For instance a Rega P3 is in my opinion is vastly superior to a Music Hall MMF 7 and at less cost, new price to new price. I know I have had both here in recent months. Used the Rega P 3 is a hands down winner in this category.

Both VPI and Sota are easily accessed via phone or e Mail and are most helpful in their product line.

The choice is yours and it is your money.
ferrari
ferrari OP
617 posts
 
In my opinion the best Duals to get are the CS 5000 and CS 7000 don't spend more than $300.00 for them though. The ULM Duals have tonearm wiring issues as they age. Duals from the mid 70s if still operational are quite good. But when they go, usually not worth time to service. Although I know a lot of folks will disagree with that in particular Joel at the turntable factory. But there is much better in the market place now than resurrecting a Dual. Any Dual one gets should be sent to Joel for a in depth check out. I do remember that the CS 5000 and CS 7000 had some phono cable issues. Nothing major, but need to be looked at for possible service issues. As a sometimes user of vinyl get a Goldring GR 1 table, which is basically a Rega P2 and your set for a very long time,plus upgradeable via the Rega route.NAD 533 another Rega clone is a choice worth considering. These usually can be had for about $350.00 or so used and have better sonics than the vinatge Duals. I love the old Duals, but clearly their time has come and gone in my book. And I am not impressed by the new offerings from Dual.

The Harman Kardon T Series of tables were as good as it gets in mass produced tables from a major manufacturer. Often referred to as the working mans Linn the HK T series were spectacular. HK got everything quite right with these tables. In fact after I sent the Linn down the road used a T 60 for many years with zero problem. As long as it is fully operational and giving no problems I say keep it. Keep in mind that HK discarded all spare parts for these tables about 5 years ago. So play it till it breaks and move on to a newer table, such as VPI, Sota or the like.
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ferrari OP
617 posts
 
I cannot possibly recommend any late model Thorens product as they are nothing more or less than a rebadged Project table. As far as I am concerned the time honored name of Thorens has been totally compromised. I was never a big fan of Thorens in the day. But to see what has happen to that name of late is disheartening at best. Project makes fine tables at their price point, but to redbadge one as Thorens and all that name implies is in my book one of the true shams in audio today.

Also keep in mind that much of the Music Hall gear uses Project parts as well and most likely comes out of the same factory as Project. I know have had these tables apart on the work bench.

Project for what it is represents good value and little else. There is better to be had at less cost and better sonics than Thorens,Music Hall and Project.

Older Thorens were fine turntables in their day. Only a handful are worthy of restoring. Note that the new Thorens company discarded all of the parts for the past Thorens product. It will be very difficult if not impossible to service these units in years to come.
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ferrari OP
617 posts
 
Have heard the Project Perspective which was a somewhat Oracle/Michell clone. But at $1,299.00 at the time there is far better price point to price point. But nonetheless was decent value. Tone arm left something to be desired though should have been better at the price point. Arm had difficulty with heavier weighted Moving Coils at 8 grams and above. My opinion at this price point should be able to handle any moving coil regardless of gram weight. Overall while the Perspective was a decent table, but somewhat over priced for value received. My customer only kept it for a couple of months before moving on to the VPI Scout. The Scout is only $300.00 more than the Perspective but offers performance that only the Perspective wished it could do. Basically this is one of the issues I am trying to inform. One can easily find a used Scout in the same price range as the Perspective and have performance that the Perspective cannot hope to reach. And it is really a no brainer to spend the additional $300.00 over the Perspective. Not that the VPI Scout is the end all of turntables it is not. However at its price point I know of nothing that can touch it in quality,construction and sonics. Plus the support from VPI. It is very nice to able to call the manufacturer and speak with someone that knows analog and is helpful to ones concerns. Try calling Project,thats a hoot all in itself.
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