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Turntables New vs Used

Thought I would post this as possible food for thought. Have been in this hobby since 1957 and have owned a great many tables both new and used. My first audiophile table was a Dual 1019 and it has evolved from there.

I deal a lot in turntables both new and used, sort of a hobby business. With that in mind in recent years there has been several new tables to hit the market such as those from Music Hall,Project, and so on. Not all but most of the tables in the sub $1,000.00 range are just horrid to say the least. For what one pays in this category,one can find true stellar turntables in the used market.

Used tables from Sota,VPI and Rega will clearly outperform anything from Music Hall, Project and others.

This is not meant to disparage Music Hall or Project or others of the same category. But when one truly looks into what is available in the used market,it becomes readily apparent that the higher end used tables will sonically be superior to the new offerings.

I know for the last few months have had several of the Music Hall and Project tables as well as others come and go through the door.

To be candid there is no black art or voodoo science in turntable design. Physics and Geometry are basic law and are absolute with debate not being possible.

But many of these new tables have seem to have forgotton these basic laws and some of the new tables are pure dreck and I am being kind there.

Turntables from VPI,Sota,Rega,Nottingham,Bluenote,Clearaudio,JA Michell,and Simon Yorke offer tables that firmly place them among the best in the world,with sound engineering principles.

Plus the upgrade path is clearly there for future sonic improvements as materials and science come about.

In addition the price one will pay for one of the used tables make these some of the best bargains for today and tomorrow. However with all things used do make sure of whom you get it from and that you are getting what you pay for.

Don't overlook many of the excellent direct drive used tables from Denon,Kenwood,Yamaha,Technics and others. But do concentrate on thier upper end models forgoing the lower model line up.

All in all the current used market represents far greater value than most of the mass produced new tables.

For instance a Rega P3 is in my opinion is vastly superior to a Music Hall MMF 7 and at less cost, new price to new price. I know I have had both here in recent months. Used the Rega P 3 is a hands down winner in this category.

Both VPI and Sota are easily accessed via phone or e Mail and are most helpful in their product line.

The choice is yours and it is your money.
ferrari
ferrari OP
617 posts
 
I cannot possibly recommend any late model Thorens product as they are nothing more or less than a rebadged Project table. As far as I am concerned the time honored name of Thorens has been totally compromised. I was never a big fan of Thorens in the day. But to see what has happen to that name of late is disheartening at best. Project makes fine tables at their price point, but to redbadge one as Thorens and all that name implies is in my book one of the true shams in audio today.

Also keep in mind that much of the Music Hall gear uses Project parts as well and most likely comes out of the same factory as Project. I know have had these tables apart on the work bench.

Project for what it is represents good value and little else. There is better to be had at less cost and better sonics than Thorens,Music Hall and Project.

Older Thorens were fine turntables in their day. Only a handful are worthy of restoring. Note that the new Thorens company discarded all of the parts for the past Thorens product. It will be very difficult if not impossible to service these units in years to come.
Post removed 
ferrari OP
617 posts
 
Have heard the Project Perspective which was a somewhat Oracle/Michell clone. But at $1,299.00 at the time there is far better price point to price point. But nonetheless was decent value. Tone arm left something to be desired though should have been better at the price point. Arm had difficulty with heavier weighted Moving Coils at 8 grams and above. My opinion at this price point should be able to handle any moving coil regardless of gram weight. Overall while the Perspective was a decent table, but somewhat over priced for value received. My customer only kept it for a couple of months before moving on to the VPI Scout. The Scout is only $300.00 more than the Perspective but offers performance that only the Perspective wished it could do. Basically this is one of the issues I am trying to inform. One can easily find a used Scout in the same price range as the Perspective and have performance that the Perspective cannot hope to reach. And it is really a no brainer to spend the additional $300.00 over the Perspective. Not that the VPI Scout is the end all of turntables it is not. However at its price point I know of nothing that can touch it in quality,construction and sonics. Plus the support from VPI. It is very nice to able to call the manufacturer and speak with someone that knows analog and is helpful to ones concerns. Try calling Project,thats a hoot all in itself.
psychicanimal
1,738 posts
 
KAB modded Technics 1200. Price new around $900.

http://www.kabusa.com

***
ferrari OP
617 posts
 
Why Technics continues with this table is a total mystery to me when the Technics SL 1100A and the armless version the SL 110A were vastly superior to the venerable SL 1200 and the MK II version.

In my view this table has application in the DJ market and limited use in home application.

The only good thing I see here is that parts are readily available because of the continued production of the SL 1200.

Have not seen or used the KAB Modded version of the SL 1200 and cannot comment on that version. However with that being said to mod one of these and sell it for $900.00 or so, seems to be like flogging a dead horse. The SL 1200 in the day was very good, but it time has also come and gone.

One can easily acquire a VPI HW 19 in its many models or a Sota Sapphire in it different versions for the same or less money. Have better sonics,upgradeable with factory parts. U.S. made with excellent factory support.

Now if Technics wants to impress me bring back the SL 1100A or SL 110A or the SP 10.

Over the years have had way to many SL 1200 pass through the doors, no longer impresses me to value,sonics,build quality and the tone arm is in my opinion way outdated.
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