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Vintage DIN phono cables, any good?

The question is about old DIN tonearm phono cables for the top of the line vintage Japanese tonearms. 
I wonder how good those old cables are compared to the mid priced new cables ?

For example an old Audio Craft, SAEC, Fidelity Research, SONY  cables made for their top of the line tonearms are good? It's easy to replace an old RCA connectors, but what about the cables? Some of them are silver and must be a good quality. 

Any thoughts? 
Thanks 
128x128chakster
nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 

Dear Chakster, I needed some time to answer your last question.

Curious but true the most frustrating ''part'' in our system chain

are those damn ''tags'' or ''pins''. Consider those expensive tonearms

(Reed,Triplanar,etc) with fast headshells and worthless tags. That

is to say when the invoved tags break or drop. I would be sorry

for whomever is in your vicinity. Anyway I compare this state of

affairs with Armani suit in combo with Nikes. We, the decent people

would not like to be associated  with such kinds. Well there are

only two kinds of decent tags in our known universe. Clearaudio and

Cardas. Alas both very expensive and , curiously, sold as 4 samples.

We of course need 8. Depending from the number of your Armani

suits you need to multiplay with 8. This means using those tags

for our most expensive and beloved carts.

BTW I noticed that our dear Lew does not like Litz wire. He obviously

 forget headshell wire or overlooked the problem (grin).

nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 

Dear chakster, you divided my (former)  post in different issues

or questions. You last question was about headshell wire. But

you also questioned my preference for Bullet and WBT (RCA)

connectors  and put your own opinion about ''the best one'' as

Xhadow kind. But you obviously missed the ,say, ''essence'' of

Eichmanns innovation. That is ''one point'' grounding and as less

metal as possible. WBT copied Bullets invention two years

later probably because Eichmann deed not protect his invention

by patent. However WBT kept its complicated construction with

fastening mechanisme for both (opposite) connectors which

meant the use of more metal for the connector. Consider those

thin wire , needed for those (damn) Din 5 connectors in relation

to ''abundance '' of metal on the other side. ''Your Xhadow'' looks

like the old WBT connector. Ground on both sides of the connector.

From this follows that you don't believe that Eichmanns innovation

is actually  ''innovation at all''. Or you missed the ''essence'' (grin).



chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
@nandric
Or you missed the ’’essence’’

Maybe, i just said they are fragile, not the best construction for re-soldering if needed. The benefit of the Xhadow is the bolt inside (to screw-in the signal wire to the connector pin) to pass on solgeding, so no soldering needed at all (or it can be soldered and screwed). But i guess if we pass on soldering it’s a benefit if you know this theory. The Xhadow is available in two size, but both are bigger than WBT Nextgen.

What i like about Eichman / KLE is affordable price, but the internal design of the WBT or Exadow is way superior to any connectors i have ever seen, except maybe the new Love Craft RCA from the Xhadow designer (Chris Sommovigo). I also use the Xhadow Banana for my amp and the Xhadow Spades for my speakers. 

Here is the review of both Eichman vs. Xhadow: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/connectors/connectors.html
lewm
13,171 posts
 
Chakster, I just skimmed the review on 6 Moons.  Thanks for providing the reference.  I guess it's just me, but after 30-40 years of audiophilia, reviews like that make me gag.  At the same time, I have been using the Eichmann silver bullet plugs for as long as they have been available, because I see a sound philosophy behind their design, and because from the beginning, even with the copper Eichmann's, they just sounded better than the traditional "heavy metal" connectors, most notably the Cardas that I had been using prior.  (I make all my own ICs and power cords.) The only issue I have had with Eichmann Bullet plugs is that with some female RCA jacks, the ground connection is not readily made or is unstable.  Whenever I now use a Bullet plug, I try also to install a female Eichmann RCA jack to receive it; they work well together.

The Xhadow connectors may be competitive with Eichmann, but I will have to see for myself.  What I dislike about the review is the precision of language where precision of sonic memory and freedom from memory bias is impossible.  And I dislike that horrible term from Jonathan Valin, "tone colors".  It has now permeated the lexicon of every other second and third rate reviewer. 

The reviewer seems to dislike solder joints, preferring screw pressure connections.  A "good" solder joint should have the wire and the connector in contact with each other, in fact wrapped together when possible, so that the solder is only serving to hold the two elements in place.  If that's done properly, I don't see why it would not be at least as good as screw terminals.  Not only that, with screw terminals it is typically a good idea to "tin" the ends of the wires, especially if the wire is stranded, so as to keep the screw pressure from pushing the strands out of the way, instead of making the intended connection stable. Thus you end up with a screw pressing on solder. Moreover, does the reviewer realize that inside his Leben preamplifier, the signal is traversing dozens, if not hundreds, of solder joints?
nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 

Dear chakster, The Germans have a curious attitude about

philosophy. They collectivly admire their Hegel and Kant but

also state: ''there is nothing so easy as to refute an philosopher.

The only thing one need to do is read some other''.

Compare this with ,say, HIFI reviewers . Lew already suggested

my intention but when I become member of our forum (2007)

I terminated my 5 HIFI Magazines subscriptions. BTW I had no

idea that my membership would be so much more expensive. Think

of the number of my carts (grin).

''Re-soldering'' of the RCA connectors? This, my young friend,

is not done. As I already mentioned ''your Xhadow'' connector

looks like the old WBT connector. But they changed their mind

and copied Eichmann. I would not dare to ever contradict Lew so I

agree with his opinion about Eichmann's.

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