VPI TNT Turntables

The problem is not just having the motor in the plinth. Vibrations are transmitted through the belt itself, and they cause all sorts of distortion. I went to great lengths to isolate the motor from the plinth on my VPI table, and I used two different motors, one much "quieter" than the other. I still had a drastic improvement when I went to the (much smoother) Teres motor and ditched the Hurst motor/belt drive configuration altogether.  

Don_c55 - I'd be interested to see you design and market a successful line of high-end audio products. Not so easy. VPI has used cheaper materials because they have to. My Aries 1 turntable is a good example - they used real wood in the construction of the plinth, and made a fantastic turntable. But it was too expensive to produce that way, so in the later iterations they used different (yes, cheaper) materials. Harry Weisfeld said somewhere that the Aries 1 would be an $8000 TT if they sold it today. Nothing wrong with an $8000 turntable but that's a pretty small market niche.  

"I do find you have to be careful with vpi, a lot of their changes were made to lower manufacturing costs and marketed as "better"

Though you may consider this a distinction without a difference, a number of changes may have been made to keep prices form rising,  HW has maintained that it has become far more difficult (translation: expensive) to obtain the quality acrylic that was used to machine what were probably some of VPI's very best platters.  Thus the return to aluminum.  Yes, the original VPI platters were aluminum and lead and the movement from those platters to acrylic and lead so was widely praised that the aluminum was dropped for many, many years.  Then, as now, many who used the aluminum platters sought all sorts of mats for them.

Lead was discontinued as well, though it had very favorable audible advantages: heavy weight and great damping properties.  The shift here was attributed to health effects during manufacture.

And yes, marketing masters that they are, every change was promoted as improving the sound and they had the published reviews to second their promotions.  And along the way they were making improvements in other ways, such as with their bearings, flywheels and speed controllers.

@jollytinker

They made 100 per year of the TNT turntables, and less profit then now.

VPI sells much more, and makes more money now.

Good for them. Harry knows a lot about hype and marketing!

However the TNT series is as good as (or better) than anything they make now IMO.

High sales "does not" equate with high quality.  New is not always better.

@jollytinker

I know a lot about design, having worked in design, in the medical device industry for years.

I would never work in the high end audio industry, because most all customers are irrational!

I admit that VPI marketing isn't always effective. I think they hyped the 3D tonearm for the wrong reasons - the coolness of a new manufacturing technology - rather than its sonic improvements. That contributed to the feeling that the new tonearm was a gimmick, when in fact - or in my opinion - it actually sounds better than the metal ones.  

But that said, I don't think VPI is declining or veering into cheapness. On the contrary, they seem to be weathering their recent transitions quite well.  Musical enjoyment is highly subjective, and therefore "irrational" if you want to put it that way.  That's the beauty and the intrigue of the hobby, not the 'problem'.  

My $.02, anyway.  :)