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Want to get excited about SACD again??

First the good news:

The new Verve re-release of Diana Krall's "When I Look In Your Eyes" finally gives us a real shot of the "analog like" potential of SACD. You may want to pick this disk up if you have a SACD player.

Now the bad (potentially good) news:

One of the reasons this disk sounds very good..and the other Verve/Krall SACD release doesn't (and I'm not talking sujective music content) is that this is a SACD only release, ie: no redbook layer.

Think about it, this only makes sense. Go to the Audio Research site and read their logic about their new CD player the CD3. ie: just do one thing well. And Ayre, Classe and other high-end audio companies are bringing out CD only players and addressing the multi-format compromises/concerns.

With all of the jitter and bits/reading concerns that any digital machine can have, it just makes sense that if we had SACD only machines (this way they could have better audio stages...etc. instead of time/money being spent on covering all bases) and SACD only disks (no problem with lasers picking up bits from too many layers)

I know, I know that Sony, and others, feel that these multi format machines and multi layer disks are the safe way to market these things. Well they are shooting themselves in the foot...or maybe the head...because if they don't release the machines and software that will show off what this format can do..well it will die. Because the very people that have tried to support the format are being given hardware and software that is not showing off the formats best.

So, give me a SCD-1 without the CD hardware, and instead put in better caps, resistors and a discrete jfet audio stage running in class A. Then give me SACD uncompromised software to play on it....even just two channel...no multi-channel. If multi-channel was important to audio..this could have been done on redbook cds for some time. This multi-channel is just Sony's knee-jerk reaction to DVD-A...and they are just missing the piont that it is a MOVIE thing not a MUSIC thing.

Sorry to ramble...but I feel SACD will fail...and it's not because it isn't better...this SACD only Krall disk shows this....it's because of this multi-multi direction that is, likely, doomed.
whatjd
calanctus
151 posts
 
Ghostrider45, thanks for your answer. Here's hoping you are right. However, I remember the explanations about CDs: that they were 'bit-perfect' so would transfer sound perfectly right up until the DA converter. At least, this is what we believed until we heard about jitter...which meant that the theory of CDs did not translate perfectly into practice.

Still this is the first time I've heard any suggestion of bit pickup across layers, so maybe it's just hogwash.
zaikesman
3,017 posts
 
Having seen no evidence at all that dual-layer technology can hurt SACD fidelity, I have to say that I couldn't disagree more with your premise. Sure, one-format machines might be fine, and even desirable, for high end companies to manufacture for audiophiles, but what will cause the format to fail more surely than anything else imaginable, is if the mass-market software is not backward-compatible with consumers' existing CD-playing hardware. If what you secretly wanted to do was kill the emerging format tomorrow (and there might be legit reasons for wanting that, but that's another topic), there would no more certain way to accomplish this than to tell consumers that they must pony up for new machines first, and that neither their new or their old machines would be able to play the other kind of disk, so that they would either need two libraries as well as two machines, or that they would need to purchase their entire libraries over again, something not even possible as things stand today, multi-channel or no. Forget it, unless you restrict you wishes to audiophile labels only, but even then, where's your evidence?
ben_campbell
1,169 posts
 
Whatjd-unfortunately Diana Krall isn't really my cup of tea.
I'm looking forward to the new Bowie and Gabriel albums which are soon to be released on SACD.
whatjd OP
1,139 posts
 
Ben, I agree that Ms. Krall is not for everyone...inc. me. But until we have Sarah Vaughn, Ella and others on SACD my choices are limited.

The only proof I have is the same I've had for the 30+ years that I have owned high-end audio...my own listening experience.

In my comments above about the SCD-1, it is a shame that so many people/systems out there are striving for good sound and trying different speakers, tubes vs. solid state, copper vs silver wires..etc. and their source component..be it CD, SACD, Tuner..whatever has very poor op-amps that are the begining of the signal through the system. These op-amps would never be desired by any of you in your pre-amp...if this were true we could all dump our tube or fet-based pre amps and buy and old Adcom 565 pre-amp with those class A op-amps.

Anyway, live and listen how you want...I just won't have my source component be so compromised that it makes efforts throughout the rest of the system not usless...but not far from that. This is why so many good people out there are doing modifications on SACD machines. This was just not the case(to the same degree) with CD players...but the room for improvement in SACD machines is so obvious because of this multi-format path making for $ compromise in the sonic areas of these players.

I do want SACD to succeed, and I want to be able to buy a player that on an SACD disk(hybrid or not) will sound better than a redbook of the same title on players like the ARC CD3, Ayre....and others..and that is just not the case now...unless you buy a Sony SCD-1 and put 2k plus into mods.
czbbcl's avatar
czbbcl
1,752 posts
 
I have both Diana Krall SACD discs and both sound superior to their redbook counterparts. The biggest difference I hear is the depth of the soundstage is much deeper more realistic on the SACD layer versus the redbook layer. I have had a similar experience with Jacintha (Lush Life / Autumn Leaves).

I believe SACD will survive if only in a limited venue similar to 180 / 200 g virgin vinyl discs have survived. Also given the fact that more companies are producing the discs. At least I hope it does, because if it doesn't, them I will never be able to listen to my system knowing that it could be much better.

As a classical music lover the SACD format is a substantial improvement over redbook. The symphonies are much better because of the formats ability the create a much deeper and detailed(realistic) soundstage. I have not heard any of the Rock hybrids but on that music venue maybe the differences (improvements) are much less dramatic.

As far as for the SCD-1 it is a remarkable player for both redbook and SACD. Even unmodded it is very competitive against the likes of the Audio Aero, EMC, Wadia, etc. on redbook; on SACD it is simply better.
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