What CDP gets really close to vinyl?

I understand what you are saying, never heard this adjective before.

So far as dynamic range, I dunno know about that Muralman, so far as dynamics. I've heard some pretty mind boggling analog front ends in that area. In any event even if digital is better in this area can it match it in the other areas previously discussed in the here and now in ways that matter? Or is is close enough that it really isn't that important. You have stated a very clear opinion on that and it certainly isn't lost on me.

I would love to hear Liszt on steroids on those Apogees of yours Muralman. You make a very persuasive argument aside from all the great fun watching you spear chucking with Audiofeil ;^)

I think with vinyl, there is no imposed limit to dynamic range imposed by the format as there is with Redbook CD. So it is possible for vinyl to achieve greater dynamic range in theory.

But in practice, most records are not recorded and produced in a manner that stretches those limits, though some do.

One of the reasons is that it takes a very good turntable setup to be able to track a record produced with very large dynamics accurately without mistracking or distortion creeping in.

Ironically, a lot of teh early Telarc digitally recorded lps were designed to demonstrate the dynamic range capabilities of the new digital recording technology. I recall most turntables, even decent ones, that most people owned could not track those well. They helped up the ante in terms of what one might expect out a good phono rig in terms of dynamics.

In practice, wither vinyl or CD can hold the edge in regards to dynamics on a case by case, recording to recording basis, despite the fact that a really good phono rig and a really good recording together tehse days might be able to set the bar.

One other point I would put out there is that I find the better CD recordings out there do not leave me wanting in any regard relating to dynamics, so the real limits of the format are not of any real consequence, at least for me.

Where the 16 bits available in CD Redbook format to capture dynamics probably does fall a tad short in comparison to the best analog, is in the area of microdynamics, in other words, the deficiency is in how well small differences in waveform magnitude is represented, not the largest ones, which is what determines dynamic range.

This is why bowed strings and other instruments capable of producing extended duration complex yet subtle harmonics that do not vary much in magnitude, like massed strings, are perhaps the hardest thing to get 100% correct with CDs.

I also think the DCS ring dac architecture is SOTA in its ability to fill in those microdynamics in an ear friendly manner (though it is still just an estimate of what is missing) as a result of its highly randomized dithering capabilities.

Other well executed DACs like the mhdt's at various price points are extremely close however. USe of the tube out stage in the tubed mhdt DACs can help also by applying an ear friendly very high frequency low pass filter, as does a lot of gear out there, either via tubes or other approaches.