What do you do when nothing seems to get LP clean?

I admit that I've been a little intimidated to post my concerns about this new cleaner, because if you do, there are those who try their hardest to make you feel poorly, just for stating your opinion.

Some of us collect rare, valuable records and it would be un-wise and irresponsible for us to use anything questionable on them. I'm the guy that has the $300 Fred Jackson Blue Note. I also own 2 of the 500 original 1568 Mobley's. I've been told that these sell for between $2 to $3K. I also own most of the original 1500 series Blue Notes and have spent thousands of dollars acquiring them.

Certainly, even you dopogue, can understand why some of us with collections like this may take extra caution to make sure the cleaner is safe and has had suitable testing and research behind it to insure our records are not harmed.

I realize that a replacement value offer was made by the manufacturer, however he advised me against using his fluid on my $300 Fred Jackson "Hootin' and Tootin'".

If this fluid is being offered for use on garage sale VG condition or less records, then fine. I don't waste my time with such records. But to insinuate that 4yanx, dougdeacon or I have issues because we won't follow your lead is ludicrous.

Wow, that puts me in my place. And 4yanx, I'm sorry your team lost. Jes45, I wouldn't dream of telling you to use ENZYMES on your discs. I'm amazed that you actually listen to them at all, must play hell with the resale value. All the best, Dave

I'm not a scientist but I didn't sleep through all my studies at university. Animal fats are used in making steel to provide certain characteristics for workability, strength, etc. What it is not is steel with fat added. It becomes a very complex molecular structure. Even if you weld the steel it will not leech out the animal fat. I'm sure that a complex compound of molecules found in vinyl formulations is similar in concept. If it were as simple as vinyl with fats added then certainly the pressure of the stylus would make the fats leech through temperature rise with a couple of tons per square inch pressure. I don't know how big enzymes are but I'm pretty sure they are bigger than individual molecules. We all know that salt is not good for concrete. But one doesn't claim that putting salt on it makes the portland cement leech out and that's why it crumbles. It is no longer sand, water, lime and portland cement. It is concrete after the ingredients have had their chemical reaction. This is not offered to make a fuss with you guys. It's just food for thought.

Dave, why be so silly to attack me as a fan of a baseball team because I had questions about enzymes in vinyl cleaners? Besides, none were directed your way, unless you have a vested interest that I don't know about or something...

As for the Yanks, yeah, they folded. Doesn't bother me much, though, the Sawx have to win once in a great while. Long as it's just once every 20 years or so (as is history) and then nothing in the Series (in my, my dad's, and my granddad's lifetime), I can live with that! Ha! :-)

I just think this whole thread is sad and getting more so, with absolutely no way to satisfy the naysayers who are trashing a fine new product with, IMHO, a mixture of unanswerable innuendo and misplaced Armor All comparisons. And what does this product claim to do? Cure cancer? No, all it does is clean vinyl records. Does it clean them well? Absolutely, better than anything I have tried.

Ah, so I must have a "vested interest ... or something." Sorry, I never heard of Paul Frumkin before signing on as a beta tester. I owe him nothing. He owes me nothing. But his products work as claimed and have enriched my listening experience. That's enough for me. Dave