What is Floyd Toole saying about extra amplifier power and headroom?


I've been reading Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms" and came across a passage that I wish he went into further detail about. It has to do with whether having amplifier headroom has any noticeable improvement in sq. He happens to be talking about getting the bass right in small rooms, but in doing so, he also touches on the use of a larger amp for extra headroom: 

Remedies for unacceptable situations typically included spending more money on a loudspeaker with a “better” woofer (without useful technical specifications, that was a lottery of another kind) and a bigger amplifier (for useless headroom ...

It's the last part ("useless headroom") that I'm curious about. I have notoriously hard-to-drive speakers (Magico Mini IIs). Although the recommended amplification is 50w - 200w, in my experience, that's a bit of an underestimation. I'm driving the Minis with a Musical Fidelity M6PRX, which is rated at 230w @ 8ohms. (The Minis are 4ohm.) The combination sounds excellent to my ears at low to moderate listening levels, but I notice a slight compression in the soundstage at higher levels. My listening room, while small, is fairly well treated with DIY panels made from Rockwool, sound-absorbent curtains, and thick carpeting. So I don't think I'm overloading the room. But I have wondered if an amp with far more power than what's suggested (more headroom) would drive the speakers with a little less effort.

Those of you familiar with Toole or with driving speakers with power to spare, what are your experiences? If I went with, say, a pair of monoblocks that drive 600w @ 4ohm, would the extra headroom address the compression I'm hearing at higher levels? Or am I wasting my time and, potentially, funds that would be better spent elsewhere? 

Thanks!  


128x128diamonddupree
@diamonddupree I should be happy with the sound I am getting from a single AHB2 now. However, if I was that type of person I would not be hanging around A'gon.

I have great synergy with my all Benchmark system now. Adding that second AHB2 will just move the needle to 11.
@erik_squires When it comes to Convoluton filters what I have now was created by a rock star in the field, not by some random DIY’er who thinks they are an expert after tinkering around. This was done by a professional audio engineer doing this for 20+ years and has written a book on this issue.

What I have now is the best tweak or upgrade to my system. I do not know if you hang out in the Computer Audiophile site but my filters were created based on info posted there. Some very knowledge folks on this issue over there. I am posting my findings here because most folks on this site are not aware of the possibilities with Convolution.

My Convolution files was created using Audiolense which I understand is some very complicated software (Accurate is another option). It is also not free, like REW. I had to pay $200 for a 1 time license usage of the software by the outsourced audio expert. The implementation cost was another $500. Peanuts from my perspective. I paid more for an XLR interconnect and that had 0.00145% the benefit of the Convolution.

What I solved was getting a big speaker into a small room and getting it sounding perfect. That was my goal from the start and mission accomplished. It took me 2 years to get to this destination from the start of this thread.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/big-speakers-in-small-room-at-moderate-volume-levels?highligh...

With regards to ROON setup, I have a 2 computer solution. My client computer was picked out of the trash 5 years ago from an previous employer. My ROON Core server is a under $1K DELL refurbished machine. It has something like 20 cores and 32 Gigs of RAM. This is actually my weakest server in the house, I have about 10 computers in the house. ROON Core does not need that much power, even with Convolution. If you go to the ROON forums and ask the ROON developers there they will tell you the same.

I had a buddy over to my office today. I had him sit at my desk and I played the music. He had the same reaction I am having, glorious sound. I have actually heard enough uber systems and other non-uber great systems to know that my system is now also great.
I'm glad you are enjoying the results!!

I apologize I was thinking of the generic/common use of convolution filters with Roon, which most time is a thoughtless exercise.
Those same filters however can be used to make much more discrete changes. 

My bad. :)
Speaking of amps that will truly, "Double Down".
   The only one's, "theoretically" that will, that I know of are the Pass "Aleph 0's".
I had a pair of the, "Aleph 2" but I never really ran them hard.
 Very nice amps though.....
"Erik"?
 You mentioned a "Mythical" Krell, 50 watt amp also? Do you by any chance mean the KHA-100 mono-blocks? 
 I have a pair sitting here. And cannot seem to find anything much about them. Large though.
MC is very wrong again on many accounts. Headroom - this is where an amp can really shine in producing high instant peaks and crescendos. If any amp, listening amp, guitar/bass amp, pushing an amp too hard will cause distortion, clipping, or possibly shut it down. Headroom is a buffer of sorts, just like the car you drive, do you always need 300hp to go to the store? No, but when passing or trailering you might hedge that way. MC always gives his wisdom on speaker sensitivity and since he thinks his low fi speakers are 94db rated, he tells everybody to ignore speakers less than 90+db efficient. He ignores a few reviews of tekton speakers where the reviewer actually measured tekton 7db lower than the rated 94db from the manufacturer. If this is the case, which I’m guessing is fact since 1 of the trade mags does measurement tests and MC doesn’t, I would think MC would follow his own advice and start looking for a quality speaker this time around that’s 90+db efficient. IMO, it’s foolish to state a speaker needs to be greater than 90db unless you want to use a low powered SET amp, then by all means look for a high efficient speaker.