What to do: upgrade amp or buy pre-amp

Friend

It is possible to buy all top rated gear and not get the emotional connection. What I have found over the years is the lower power quality Triode Amplifiers do this well!

The REF210 is based upon a push-pull, fully balanced vacuum-tube circuit running in partial cathode coupling mode, utilizing three matched pairs of 6550C output tubes. The REF210 uses two 6550C driver tubes, each controlling three output tubes operating in unison. The input stage uses direct-coupled JFETs, followed by a 6N1P vacuum-tube amplifying stage.

The REF210 is well built and great sounding - but in all that circuitry the signal is affected. Most people do not get a chance to compare due to the direction of the dealer - which basically means you either carry this type or that type. Once in the store - most people by habit just look for what sounds best in that store.

Anyway, long story short - try a SET Amplifier with the right Loudspeakers. And yes, you will need a great Preamplifier. Here is a great store for SET Amplification and a great website to sip tea and read to learn.

http://dejavuaudio.com/ >> Store

http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Frankenstein.html#Four >> Read and Learn

First, I would consider a Ref 5se instead of a Ref 5. There is a big difference between the two. The Ref 5 is much closer to the Ref 3 then the Ref 5se. Even if it means having to wait a little while. The Ref 5se is worth it. I own one and it is magical. That is where I would start.

The Ref 210s are very similar to my Ref 110. They are very nice amps. But if it were me, I think I would consider a Ref 150. It can use either kt120 or kt150 tubes. And less tubes means less heat. The Ref 150 is optimized for kt120 not 6550 tubes and is a little better sounding amp. Unless you really feel you need the extra power.

I agree with Lost Bears.
The Ref 5se is significantly better than the Ref 5. Also, I had a pair of Ref 210s in my system and now have a Ref 150 with KT 150s. I prefer the Ref 150. I thought the Ref 210s were a little too light and airy for my taste. Not so with the Ref 150 or, if you can wait, Ref 150se. I think you will be disappointed going from the Levinson to Ref 210s. That would be the last thing I would do if I were you.

You're talking about some very revealing components that are not cheap. At this level, system matching is everything. Have you tried any of these components in your system? ARC makes some good products, but results are not consistent.

My advice would be to get a preamp since you don't have one, and you'll have an easier time matching components to a system that has a preamp. Also, don't buy anything unless you can demo it first.

Ok guys. Sounds like preAmp first. Ill go get a listen to the 5se and perhaps a tubed McIntosh to compare.

Chenglo1 your WFS Dac has volume controllability, and is a perfect impedance match direct into your Levinson amp, and because the Rel is 150kohms input impedance this also can be driven via a Y connector from the WFS dac.

This setup should get you the most transparent sound possible, if you need to change the sound a bit just try different interconnects or speaker cable to achieve this.

Cheers George

I admit my levinson sounds wonderful as i upgraded the big caps to all nichicon (sp). However its only rated at 100 watts rms and the Dynes are rated at 400 watts. I felt guilty not providing them with more power from a more modern amp. Would i get a noticeable difference and or warmer sound with the ref5se? Would you guys still recommend using wyred DAC to connect to ref5se? Im thinking it makes more sense to upgrade 1 component at a time so it's easier to hear the difference. Any thoughts appreciated.

Correction: the large and small caps were all changed to Cornell Dubilier about 200 hrs ago on my Levinson 331. Not nichicon.

" However its only rated at 100 watts rms and the Dynes are rated at 400 watts. I felt guilty not providing them with more power from a more modern amp."

There's no standard for measuring watts. So if you take 10 different amps all rated at 100 watts/channel and measure them the same, every one of them will put out a different amount of power. Also, you may not be reading the specs right with regards to the speakers needing 400 watts. Its probably for transients, not continuous. The easiest way to tell if you need more power is to do some listening. If the amp is straining, you'll hear it.

" Would i get a noticeable difference and or warmer sound with the ref5se?"

There's no way to tell without trying it. If you are looking for a more traditional, classic sounding preamp, ARC is probably not the best choice.

"Would you guys still recommend using wyred DAC to connect to ref5se?"

Any answer you get on that will just be a guess.

"Im thinking it makes more sense to upgrade 1 component at a time so it's easier to hear the difference. Any thoughts appreciated. "

It sounds like a good idea, but its really not a plan for success. There's a huge difference between buying components and building a system. Can you name a system in your price range that you would be happy with?

Cheng-

the pre-amp is the true heart of any system. Strongly consider the ARC REF 5 SE pre-amp. It is magical to say the very least. You are already using Transparent cabling, so this will be a sonic match.

Keep me posted & Happy listening!

Disclaimer... a preamp manufacturer here... We think you are on the right track re: considering a preamp. Of course only your ears will tell if it's worthwhile to you.

Whatever the brand, our ears have consistently told us that using a preamp improves timbre, dynamics and how involving/compelling music sounds.

Good luck in your search.