where do i go from here?

DK - Changing cables is a good move and will help in soundstage mostly but will not fix your lack of bass. The CJ 2300 amp is rated 240 wpc @8ohms and is made specifically for tough loads ie Theil (see CJ website) Therefore i doubt your amp is the problem.

I believe the Meridian 506-20 is similar to sound quality to my Theta Miles cdp which is noted for its excellent bass response. BTW the Theta Miles resolved my bass problem. Also you should check reviews on Theta Miles & Meridian 506-20 to verify similarities. Theta might have been compared to the 508-20.

I am not familiar enough with the Theils to make a judgement except that they are power hungry, but your amp should be sufficient. Therefore for a sure thing add the subwoofer. The 508-24 might get you the bass you are looking for, but it's a gamble.

For the record, I too have equipment similar to yours, CJ MF-2200 & PFR pre, Theta Miles cdp Homegrown Silver Lace ic's, MIT T-2 speaker cable and Silverline Sonatas. There are times when I think about adding a subwoofer. The thought usually only occurs when I,m playing a thin sounding rock cd. Is this the same for you?

I have a 508.24 and a 506, and I don't think there is a significant difference in the quantity of bass output between the two. The difference is in the upper midrange and higher frequencies. One result is that the bass will sound tighter, more tuneful and perhaps have more of an impact, but not realy louder. I will say, however, that the 508.24 or the EMC would be a meaningful upgrade. I did it and certainly dont regret spending the money on the 508.

If you like your speakers, I would look into room placement and treatment. Your speakers may sound too bright and forward because of the room. You could also talk to someone who knows tubes about the ones in your preamp.

I would think that speaker positioning and new speaker cables should be first things you look at. The Kimber you're using sounds like it's 4VS, not nearly enough cable in this application. This would most certainly restrict the bass, as well as probably being responsible for the "forward"-ness of the upper midrange/lower treble (this being different from the "brightness" the 3.6's are sometimes accused of - not something I would expect in your system if you sit 8 feet or more away), through an false emphasis caused by congestion in this range. The cables aren't up to the power demands, and nothing else in the system seems like it could cause the combination of weak bass and peakiness. Try to go for speaker cabling that would sell new in the over $500 range - I use Cardas Cross between my C-J and Thiels, but there are many good choices that will improve the situation. I would spring for the best you can afford here before dropping the big bucks on new speakers, which will require the new cabling if you get them eventually anyway. You will want to follow this at some point with a comensurate upgrade of your interconnect, particularly between the pre and the amp (again, this is something you would need to do anyway if you you were to upgrade the electronics). I know you don't have much flexibility on the speaker placement, but do make sure that the bass drivers and passive radiators are not positioned close to equal distances from the walls next to and behind either speaker, as this can produce cancellation effects. Also, try to avoid having either of those measurements equal the distance from the drivers to the floor. Even a little movement away from equidistant spacing here could bring some bass improvement. Good luck and happy listening!

Listening to anyone who bashes MIT *is* the biggest mistake that you can make. Glen knows what he's talking about above; no need for any further elaboration here.

thanks everyone? o.k. if i go with cables as a first shot,
what do people think. i've heard rec's for the Cardas and the MIT's for the Thiels. What do you all think? further suggestions greatly apprecieated and i will post back to let people know what works and what doesn't. thanks again

dan karan