2. amps-preamps
  3. 136297-110229

Where do I go from here?

    • Marantz AV-7005, pre/pro (with balanced outputs and 1.4a HDMI);  Rotel RMB-1565, surrounds and center;  Rotel RKB-650, mains w/ bi-amping;  Martin Logan Motion 20, mains;  Martin Logan Motion 8 Center; Klipsch SW-10, sub;  KEF iQ-5, surrounds;  Klipsch RS-41 II, surround backs
    • Alright y'all, here is your chance to help out the newbie with your thoughts and opinions. Thanks in advance for what you may offer.  I have the above system, which is sounding really nice, with many of the qualities I've been looking for, but the upgraditis is creeping in, (again, sigh) and I am wondering which of the components may represent the weak link to my music listening nirvana?  As some my recognize, I recently added the Motion 20's to the lineup, much to my satisfaction, but where might I go from here.  I'm thinking my better half may let me get away with another $1500-2000 before I'm sleeping with the system and not her, LOL.  Since I'm more interested in the musicality of the system, listening to a mix of female vocal, rock, and dipping into the ambient realm now and then, I'm considering the replacement of the Rotel RKD-650 with something in a nice stereo configuration, possibly 3-channel to pick up the center. I'm really looking to broaden and deepen the soundstage as much as anything.  What do you think?
    128x128wisciman99
    auxinput
    2,920 posts
     

    I agree with soix on the pre/pro "premp section" argument.  I also agree with many others that small tweaks in your system will help (such as placement, etc.)  I also see that you've covered the idea that front 3 speakers need to match as closely as possible.  However, I think that there are definitely a couple things on your equipment that you should know:

    - The Marantz AV-7005 is very nice because Marantz uses discrete analog stages.  However, the 7005 uses the older version of the HDAM discrete analog circuits.  These have slow slew rates and are much warmer/slower and laid back.  The result can be sound that is too warm/slow that does not have enough attack/detail.  If you feel you are lacking attack/detail/resolution, maybe look at a newer Marantz.  The AV7702 is the cheapest pre/pro that has the new HDAM circuits.

    - Soix's idea of adding a high end 2-channel preamp is a good one if you don't care much about home theater and ALSO have different sources you listen to (such as an external DAC).  If you use the Marantz AV7005 as a DAC, then adding a preamp won't give you much because you are still dependent on the Marantz for DAC/source.  It would be much better to upgrade the Marantz 7005 is this case. 

    - It's great that you removed the RKB-650 distribution amp and the bi-amp configuration.  The RMB-1565 is going to be better.  However, it is Class D with a smallish power supply and it is my opinion that this amp sound rather flat and sterile.  If you really don't care much about home theater (which it sounds like), then the Parasound A21 comes to mind.  It is going to have much more punch, depth of soundstage, air and resolution than the Rotel RMB amp.  If you do want home theater quality, it looks like there is a 3 channel Parasound A31 on audiogon for $2100 (which is just above your threshold).

    wisciman99's avatar
    wisciman99 OP
    75 posts
     
    Thanks, aux.  Good stuff right there.  I am going to look into the Parasound.  I have seen them listed and read some reviews and they seem to be well received in the audiophile community.  I am also considering upgrading the DVD to something better, which would then become my source for more of my listening.
    wisciman99's avatar
    wisciman99 OP
    75 posts
     
    So here are my takeaways.  I really don't want to add another pre to the line-up, and at the moment, the upgrade to the Marantz is off the table.  It seems that in order to not add to the complexity of the system, I can utilize the 'Pure Direct' (Source Direct) feature of the Marantz to get the best signal passed through the pre.  If I then relegate the RMB-1565 to the surround channels for the digital work of theater and use a decent stereo tube or dual mono amplifiers for my front speakers for 2 channel listening, I should gain the most with the least amount of restructuring the system.  Would you guys (and maybe gals) agree this a fair assessment?
    auxinput
    2,920 posts
     

    Another thing you could do if you feel the Marantz is a bit slow or laid back is do a fuse upgrade.  A Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme fuse will give more attack and detail to the sound, as well as improving overall solidness of the sound itself.  You will have to take off the top part of the case to see what is on the main power supply board (just behind the power cord socket).  Typically, a processor will have one fuse, usually about 1A in capacity.  You can push this to 2A if you want a bit more punch/authority in the sound.  Power cord upgrade can help as well.

    It sounds like you have a plan.  The decision between tube and solid state has it's own decision process.  I would see if you could listen to some tube amps to get an idea on whether you would like them or not.  The tube amps may have a nice texture and sound, but they will likely be warmer/slower sounding than solid-state and may lack the deep punch and power of bass compared to the large power supply of the Parasound A21.  The A21 may seem lacking in the texture and bloom that tube amps have.  It depends on what you want.

    soix
    9,454 posts
     
    After reading some reviews it sounds like the ML Motion series may be geared to be more of a "front row" perspective rather than further back, so meaningfully increasing depth of stage may not be in the cards. Apparently pulling them out further into the room didn’t help too much, which would make sense if they’re designed more for an upfront presentation.

    Since this is a system being used for both multichannel and stereo I’d shy away from tube amps. No sense burning up tubes to watch TV or movies IMO. Although your speakers are stated to be 90dB efficient they’re also rated at a nominal 4 Ohms impedance, which means they probably dip below that somewhere in the frequency range (the Motion 40s drop below 3 Ohms at around 100Hz so likely the 20s dip around there too). Anyway, for all these reasons I’d avoid tube amps. I’d also recommend a good stereo amp rather than monoblocks -- no strong reason to pay up for two boxes in this situation, again IMO.

    Just FYI, adding a stereo preamp to your system wouldn’t add much complexity at all -- I know that sounds a little hard to believe, but it’s true especially if you get a preamp or integrated with a HT bypass. My best and most cost-effective advice, and what I’d absolutely do myself if I was in your situation, would be to add a good solid state integrated amp. You’re only adding one box to your system, and you’re killing two VERY important birds with one stone by adding a better dedicated stereo preamp and amp. Going direct from your Marantz doesn’t change the fact that the signal is still passing through the preamp section (and the rest of the electronic morass) of the prepro, and at that point the damage is done. Something like a Parasound Halo Integrated or a Hegel H190 (among others) would likely bring very significant improvements to your 2-channel experience. Here’s a link to an H190 review that actually uses your speakers in the review system: https://www.soundstagesimplifi.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/29-hegel-music-systems-h190-dac-integ...

    Incidentally there’s an almost new H190 available here now at a $1000 discount. Best of luck in whatever you end up doing.

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