2. amps-preamps
  3. 136297-110229

Where do I go from here?

    • Marantz AV-7005, pre/pro (with balanced outputs and 1.4a HDMI);  Rotel RMB-1565, surrounds and center;  Rotel RKB-650, mains w/ bi-amping;  Martin Logan Motion 20, mains;  Martin Logan Motion 8 Center; Klipsch SW-10, sub;  KEF iQ-5, surrounds;  Klipsch RS-41 II, surround backs
    • Alright y'all, here is your chance to help out the newbie with your thoughts and opinions. Thanks in advance for what you may offer.  I have the above system, which is sounding really nice, with many of the qualities I've been looking for, but the upgraditis is creeping in, (again, sigh) and I am wondering which of the components may represent the weak link to my music listening nirvana?  As some my recognize, I recently added the Motion 20's to the lineup, much to my satisfaction, but where might I go from here.  I'm thinking my better half may let me get away with another $1500-2000 before I'm sleeping with the system and not her, LOL.  Since I'm more interested in the musicality of the system, listening to a mix of female vocal, rock, and dipping into the ambient realm now and then, I'm considering the replacement of the Rotel RKD-650 with something in a nice stereo configuration, possibly 3-channel to pick up the center. I'm really looking to broaden and deepen the soundstage as much as anything.  What do you think?
    128x128wisciman99
    auxinput
    2,920 posts
     
    I, personally, have never had luck with any sort of automated room correction. I had Dirac room correction in a Theta processor once. I really tried to work with it, trying all sorts of different calibrations and configurations. I could never get it to sound good. It always made the audio sound weird in some way or another. Most of the time it had a weird phasing effect.
    I have found that a very light EQ is great and then do acoustic room treatments for the stuff you can affect. In my own system, the only EQ I do is a -9db cut on the sub frequencies under 30hz. That keeps stuff from rattling too much in my room and you actually don’t hear stuff that low anyways.

    how is your new A21 sounding?
    wisciman99's avatar
    wisciman99 OP
    75 posts
     
    Hey aux, what can I say.  The Halo is sounding awesome.  The soundstage has improved in height and depth, and the bass is well controled and tight. Mids are as you would expect and the highs are good as well.  I'm probably not going to use any Audessey settings, in fact, I've been listening in 'Pure Direct' for the most accurate sound. The sub has almost become redundant as well and I also set the sub level at -9db in the speaker level settings on the pre/pro.  It's amazing how deep those 5.5's can go on the Motion 20's.  Very happy with it all.
    auxinput
    2,920 posts
     

    That is awesome!  I’m glad the A21 is working out.  One thing you may try is to do critical listening with “Pure Direct” turned on and then turned off.  I had a scenario with a Yamaha receiver in which the Pure Direct mode sounded worse.  It was just too solid-state sounding and bright/harsh.  I think turning Pure Direct “off” basically routed the audio signal through another set of op amps, which further smoothed out the sound.  I’m not saying this will work the same way in your situation – everything is dependent on components used and system synergy, but it’s something you can try in addition to turning off Audyssey.

    Here’s another thing I have found.  Digital audio that is played using HDMI cable as the source is not as good as using a digital COAX cable.  It just does not sound as good.  If you have not already done this, I would recommend you at least get a Beldon 1694A digital cable for each source (bluray, satellite, etc.) you have that can do a digital coax output.

    https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/digital-audio/index.htm

    I have found these Beldon cables work excellent and are better than several other cables.  At $20 each for a 6 foot cable, it’s an excellent buy.  I always recommend minimum 5-6 foot digital cables to prevent short cable signal reflections.  You would have to pay $120-200 to get to the next level, such as Audioquest Cinnamon/Carbon or DH Labs D-750 cables.  These more expensive cables use silver-plated conductors which are better for digital pulse transmissions.

    I have found that there are only two scenarios which require that you send digital audio over HDMI cable:

    1. Sources that require Dolby Digital Plus (such as streaming services from Netflix / Amazon / Etc.).  For some reason, you cannot send Dolby Digital Plus over normal coax.

    2. Bluray movies that use the bluray high resolution audio formats, either DTS-MA HD or Dolby TrueHD.  The only way you can play DTS-MA/TrueHD is over HDMI.


    For normal old Dolby Digital and DTS, and even 2-channel PCM (which you would get when doing normal audio streaming from Pandora, CDs, etc.), it just sounds better to send this over digital coax cable instead of using HDMI for the digital audio.  You would still need to use the HDMI cable for video.

    Since you would potentially need both HDMI and coax digital audio from your Samsung Bluray player, you could try doing setting up your inputs on the Marantz like this:

     

                [HDMI]      [DIGITAL]    [COMP]

    BD          HDMI1      None          None

    DVD        HDMI1      Coax1        None

     

    I’m not sure if the Marantz will allow you to use the HDMI1 input for multiple sources, but you can try it out.  Then select “BD” source when playing bluray movies that use DTS-MA or TrueHD audio.  Select “DVD” when playing anything else (movies with normal DD/DTS, CDs, Pandora, etc.).

    It's a very cheap way to potentially increase the end result sound quality.

    wisciman99's avatar
    wisciman99 OP
    75 posts
     
    Thanks aux. I am sorry I’ve been away, I’ve been enjoying the tunes, surprise, surprise. What are your thought in using the Optical for the sources like Pandora? I have both a TosLink and Digital Coax interconnects in a box I could pull out. I am certainly going to try your setup. I’m breaking in the new Motion 35xt’s as the mains with biwiring at the moment, but look forward to the comparison. And may I add, I would also HIGHLY recommend the Motion 35’s, even as the mains for smaller rooms. They are borderline for replacing the Motion 20’s in large room, wow! Imaging is already impressive with only a few hours out of the box but I will most likely relegate them to the surrounds, since that is why I bought them. I am firmly in the voice matching camp at this point.
    auxinput
    2,920 posts
     

    Optical is a very poor digital interface because the LED diodes just cannot light up fast enough to make a pure square waveform pulse.  You can see the results here, if you scroll way down to the section that says "What if there is no SP/DIF output (digital out) in our CD player, only Toslink fiber optic type ?"

    http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/TRANSPORT/CD_transport_DIY.html

    Digital COAX is always superior here.  Optical should only be used if you have no other alternative.  But if you must use it, try to get one of the high density glass fiber optical cables, such as Lifatec or the Wire World Supernova cable.

    In my experience, fiber optic gives a very slow messy sound.  Detail is just not there.

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