Where is the significant point of diminishing returns on hi-end turntable?

Dear @mmporsche : """ I usually leave that to the experts and I focus on the driving-the part I enjoy the most. I believe the same is true with setting up a turntable. I can understand how to do everything but that doesn’t mean I am going to do it. I am seeking out the local experts and will have them setup my table. If I need to adjust something than I will certainly have the knowledge and tools. """

I don’t think that you just " left "/come down from your family car and suddenly gone inside a car race driving in a race car.
No one borns with that knowledge level, always exist a learning curve when we go inside a " new territory " and high-end is a new territory for you.

Every single of your posts reflects that fact: a new territory where you amost know nothing even that you said: " how to do everything ".
One thing is what we can think and what we really know about.

What are you trying to explain all of us with your posts? that you are already at the top or nearest on that learning curve/ladder?

IMHO and with all respect to you the only truly wise action you took it was to ask in this forum, even that your questions were not the rigth ones.

How do you know which or where are those experts you are talking about and where you will leave everything in their hands?


""" experts and will have them setup my table. """

I already posted here: table set up is only a link on the overall audio chain.

I don’t know how will you know that not only the table set up but the audio system is running at least at average quality level for the items you own. ?. Sorry for my ignorance level but could be that I’m missing many things with your approach and through your posts.


""" it appears that a good number of you seem to enjoy working on your setup more than listening to music ... """

maybe and that’s part of the learning curve that seems to me you think already passed for. Today I just listening at 98% of my time.
 Do you think that K.Roseberg or N.Lauda never in true passed for that learning curve? or maybe you can live with " mediocrity/average " results. Is’t fine with you?, if yes then you don't need a diferent analog rig that the one you own.

Example: I'm sure that no one buy a Formula One car only to see it in the garage and switch on/off to " listen " the kind of " noise " motor. 

Anyway, I would like to know and could be interesting for you to share:  which is your reference to be sure the expert table set up is " perfect "/well done ?

Btw, I think that in audio the best path to go/start is to have an open mind, always.


Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Get a used (but with a really good bearing) VPI Mk IV table, get what ever arm and cartridge you want (within reason), and viola:

set up your stereo on a concrete floor, put the table into a closet - the isolation you'll get will propel the tables performance upwards several rungs - maybe over $15k worth of table .  Also throw in some small area rugs, and ASC full traps in the corners, 1/2 traps on the back wall.  Lose the turntable dust cover also, just use a sheet of plastic, nobody is going to see it in the closet, make sure the arm comes off the table at the end of the vinyl to save your nerves and cartridge.

My rig is that table, a Lou Souther linear arm, and a Shelter 501 Mk 3, and a second "bass" table MF 7.1 with an AR 33PTG/II.  Linears don't do bass that well, and linears that are pushed by air?  No thanks.

You might want to try for a lower end base table, and borrow/beg other tables to check out.  If you can't tell the difference it's a vanity purchase.  From the 70's onward the best cartridge you can get on an arm that resonates at the right frequency, with the proper alignment, on a belt drive table that has the motor isolated from the table is most of the way.  Then you've got to get a killer step up - most pre-amps can't do the job.  Big transformer fan, but top notch SS units like Pass's do very well too.

I'd ignore MM cartridges and stick with low/mid compliance MC's, and look at the linear trackers, no way an arm on a pivot can touch a linear for quiet grooves and low wear.  My UHQR's sure appreciate it.

Given how difficult it is to make turntable/arm/cartridge/phono stage comparisons in a meaningful way--a point I touched on earlier--CT0517's advice above is pretty good- get with some people--civilians, not dealers-- in your area-West Coast?- who have some top tables and spend some time hanging with them. Most audiophiles I know are very generous that way. You can thus avoid the dealer bias -- I'm not down on dealers, generally, but their job is to sell you what they offer-; you also want long time user experience, which can be invaluable. 
I "get" where you are coming from in terms of not wanting something fiddly but still being able to do routine maintenance and adjustments. 
If you are looking for something to buy and keep, and not be worried about the 'next best thing'  I'd do exactly what you are doing: researching, and spending some hands-on time with some of these turntables. 
I have my favorites and preferences but see no need to name check brands here- there are a lot of good tables and arms out there. 
good luck,
(I was a car guy too, and have fond memories of hurtling around the track in a CGT with Hurley Haywood as my coach for a day). 
bill hart

I can mainly speak from what I own and love: VPI Avenger turntable, Zesto Audio Andros 1.2 phono stage, and the
cartridge options are many: Ortofon, Transfiguration, Miayaja, Koetsu, etc.. all are excellent in their own right but vary based on your personal taste.  The VPI Avenger can be manufactured in belt drive with an analog speed controller by VPI (extra $1000) and gets a lot closer to the magnetic and direct drive, which gets at your diminishing returns question.  The avenger table also allows multiple arms if you own a lot of mono and stereo records.  I would go with the VPI Avenger (future proof), VPI ADS speed controller, Zesto phono stage (tube phono stage with multiple inpits and gain/loading flexibility), and one on the high end carts I mentioned above.  The dealer I work with sells all of it, and definitely think it will be under $25k and well in your budget.  Let me know if want to talk with him.  Best of luck

While it's tempting to focus on money (this entire thread does exactly that), as usual with audio gear and money, other things matter so much more. For example, I'm stunned to find almost no mention of MUSIC in this thread--certainly little if any from the fellow that started it.

And that's where I would want to begin this conversation. I couldn't start to understand his wants and needs without understanding what he started listening to in the first place--why he amassed all this pricey equipment at all. It totally matters whether he loves music (if so, what kinds?); vs just uses it for background, or for system demos (hey, it happens, just like w/Porsches--you think they're all used on racetracks?). Does he play an instrument? What's his connection to music in general?

Even for someone with far deeper pockets than most of  us, simply chasing ever more expensive gear is just an open-ended form of frustration...a gerbil wheel you never get off...unless the "pleasure principal" that underlying the whole enterprise is defined & confronted. Unless, that is, the only pleasure in sight is acquisition of hardware. In which case we're all just flailing in unison on this string.