Where to go after Bel Canto Ref1000MKII

Doggiehowser - Thanks for that answer. If I understand correctly, you're talking about a small difference between the Bel Canto Ref1000mII and the Nemo. Since you said the SA-Reference was a slight improvement in every regard except the bass, as compared with the Nemo, I'll conclude that the Bel Canto and the SA-Reference are also close. Does my conclusion jive with your experience? I realize that the magnitude of the difference you heard may become greater were you to compare amps in a more revealing system--if such a thing exists.

Hi Dhartwick

I think prior to tweaks, there was a fair bit of difference between the Nemos and the Bel Canto REF1000Ms in the showroom. In my case, the BC and Nemos were carried by the same dealer who also carried my speakers (Thiel CS3.7s) so it was very easy to make a direct comparison. In the showroom, the Bel Cantos sounded very lean vs the Nemos. The bass control was similar but just felt more weighted in the Nemos.

In the time I had the Bel Cantos, I made a couple of significant changes:
a. Sound Application RLS240 conditioner
b. ASI Liveline power cords
c. ARC Ref 5SE

With these in place, I felt there was a significant improvement in the overall performance of the system.

When I swapped the Bel Cantos out for the Nemos, the major change I felt was in the bass. It was still as tight as with the Bel Cantos but there was more authority and more presence to it which I liked, similar to what I heard in the showroom. But the leanness I heard in the showroom was alleviated by the ARC tubes.

As for the Plinius SA-Reference, my friend feels it edged out the Nemos. It's rated lower in terms of power output (that's what I meant earlier) but in terms of performance, my friend preferred it a lot more than the Bel Cantos and based on the experience of the same dealer showroom, he thought it sounded just a bit better than the Nemos.

Mcintosh 1201 monoblocks, BAT VK-600se. The two SS amps I have heard with the B&Ws that I liked best(Mac 2301s for tubes)

Doggie,

THe BC ref1000m has very high damping factor, 1000, perhaps the highest of any amp I know of. That was a selling point for me in my application with my large OHM 5 speakers that are known to benefit from high damping.

Do you know damping factor of the NEmos? I am guessing it is significantly lower.

That would account for the perceived leanness in the bass with the BCs. It is a godsend with the right speakers that benefit from high damping, like the larger OHMs I use, but may result in perceived leanness with some others that do not require high damping. I suspect the Thiels might fall into the latter category but not sure, the B&Ws less so.

WHen I first heard my BC ref1000ms on my Dynaudio monitors, my first reaction was what happened to the bass? What happened is it was more highly damped yet correspondingly more articulate than ever before.

ANd yes, I agree that use of a tube pre-amp works very well to help balance things out.

I use the ref1000ms with both large OHMs and small Dynaudio and Triangle monitors. The Dynaudios draw me in every time, though some might still consider the bass to be towards the lean side. Even more so with the Triangles. With the large OHM 5s, pretty much close to perfection I would say.

SO bottom line system synergy top to bottom is important and damping factor of amps should be a major consideration.

Also consider that the EC Nemos list for almost $30K a pair from what I read. THe BCs go for $6K. That's a big difference in cost. One would expect the Nemos to hold an edge, however slight that might be. If a tube pre is all that is needed to bring the two closer in performance, that is still quite a trick for the BCs. Not to mention the huge differences in size, weight, and power consumption. Those are really the things that would lead one to go Class D over a high performence monster amp. I know it was in my case. It's truly a David versus Goliath type scenario! Pretty amazing!

Hi Doggiehowser,

Based on our correspondence and other opinions out there and my own experiences, I'm leaning towards the McIntosh MEN220 Room Perfect solution. My goal is to get the speed and lack of coloration one hears from live unamplified music. I've heard super systems that come so much closer to this ideal, that they make my current system sound positively entry level--same for 99% of the other high-end rigs I've ever heard. I love my C2300 pre--it's put many others to shame, I love my SME10/IV.Vi/Dynavector XV1s, the 800Ds are the best overall speakers that I've heard short of a couple of megabuck rigs. The amp could be standing in my way, but given your experience I think I better go after the room acoustics first. My in-room frequency response isn't flat, and sound is not in phase in the sweet spot. I'm thinking I better get that sorted out and see where things stand. It's a cheaper experiment than amps or speakers, by a lot. (And, I've heard the 22k Lyngdorf system--Room Perfect is it's claim to fame--and it's got a good deal of the sound quality I'm after.)

Your help has also reinforced my suspicion that adding two Bel Canto Ref1000mIIs would result in increased bass heft--and better clarity at high volumes, I'm sure. Not areas I feel are so wanting, but I'm curious. I am an audiophile, after all. ;)