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Which one to choose between two 80K$ tube amps?

There are two interesting 80K$ tube amps on sale at Audiogon.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9jhj0-david-berning-co-211-845-otl-tube

The first one is David Berning OTL design with output of 60 Watts.

it looks beautiful. But I had never used OTL amp yet.

I am curious how it sounds with high efficiency speaker.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa27ii-jadis-ja800-flagship-tube-amplifier-six-chassis-best-ever-made-nos-new-old-stock-tube

The second one is Jadis JA800 with 6 pieces and 400watts.

I had used JA500  (only 4 pieces with 350 Watts) from 2000 to 2002 to drive B&W Notilus 801 with utmost authority and unbelievable slam.

It was kind of lifetime experience to own this beautiful and overbearing monster.

But I could not use it during summer time in modest size room.

Thus I let it go and got Silbatone 300B SET amp to drive efficient full range speaker.

350 Watt to 8 Watt

If you have money or hit the Jackpot, which one will you go for?




128x128shkong78
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,931 posts
 
which of your Atma-sphere amps would you recommend to compete with the Berning at this level and what would be MSRP on that amp.  
@t

By your request, The M-60, base price is about 7700/pair, but I would have them fully optioned at which point they are about 10,400/pair.
mglik
911 posts
 
There is an Ongaku currently on AG for $52k.
Bet you could get it for much less.
IMO, best amp ever made.
The Berning is second. Very different sound. More SS sounding and more transparent but lacking the SET MAGIC.
GO FOR THE Ongaku!
audition__audio
1,522 posts
 
Never heard the Ongaku but hope to someday. Having said this, I have never heard a transformer coupled amp that could compare with an OTL. With single ended amps I always get the feeling that I am listening to distortion that shouldnt be present. 
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
mglik,
Agree 100% that the Berning OTL and the Kondo Ongaku could both be considered to be uber quality amplifiers yet as you note unquestionably different sounding. I don’t see how one could be declared superior to the other. They will simply appeal to different types of listeners.

Lean/cooler tonality(some might say more transparent ) OTL versus fuller body/flesh on the bone (some might say warmer) SET. Distinctly different forms of a particular harmonic distortion character. 3rd order versus 2nd order. There are devout fans of each. No right or wrong here.
Charles
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,931 posts
 
@charles1dad The Berning amplifier in question can run feedback or none; being SET its distortion signature is based on a quadratic nonlinearity (2nd harmonic). In order to have a cubic nonlinearity (based on 3rd harmonic) the amp has to be entirely differential from input to output.

The ear treats both the 2nd and 3rd the same way (contributes to 'warmth' and 'richness') but in general an amplifier with a predominate 3rd will have considerably less overall distortion (typically 1/10th) than one based on the 2nd, and as the distortion order is increased, the product falls off faster. This is especially beneficial because the ear is so sensitive to the higher ordered harmonics.


The advantage of the Berning amplifier over a traditional SET is that the output transformer is not nearly as bandwidth limited and it does not have the saturation issues. So it can be made considerably higher power as well!
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