Why is Double Blind Testing Controversial?


I noticed that the concept of "double blind testing" of cables is a controversial topic. Why? A/B switching seems like the only definitive way of determining how one cable compares to another, or any other component such as speakers, for example. While A/B testing (and particularly double blind testing, where you don't know which cable is A or B) does not show the long term listenability of a cable or other component, it does show the specific and immediate differences between the two. It shows the differences, if at all, how slight they are, how important, etc. It seems obvious that without knowing which cable you are listening to, you eliminate bias and preconceived notions as well. So, why is this a controversial notion?
moto_man
It was like that with me. Some of the things that I have purchased are expensive, to me that is, probably not to some of you. I would look at the new expensive thing and want to like. I've not just listened for a few minutes either. Try months. About the time I'm sure that I now have something better, I bring my wife into the game. She knows nothing about this stuff, could care less. Put simply: When I'm doing the switching I can tell the difference every time. When my wife does it I fail half the time.
Paulwp: Why specifically drag me into this ? I made no comment either way. I think everybody here that has read more than a few of my posts would know where i stand and i was willing to leave it at that. Having said that....

Jwrobinson: Why would listening levels change within a system if a cable was changed ? I am talking RCA vs RCA and XLR vs XLR ( apples to apples, no change in system gain, etc... ). So long as the cables are of reasonable design ( adequate gauge so as not to incur voltage drop due to series resistance ), there should be NO change. That is, IF "wire" really is "wire" and conductors are conductors.

The only reasonable explanation would be that the equipment is loading up differently. Since it is loading up differently, wouldn't it be logical that the response of said equipment has been altered to what is a measurable, and quite possibly, an audible extent ?

As far as your concerns regarding "cleaning the connections when cables are swapped" possibly altering our sonic perceptions, any type of "reasonable" connection that has recently been plugged / unplugged should measure less than a few hundred milli-ohms. If a few hundred milli-ohms can alter our sonic perception and is audible, why wouldn't something so large as what could be a drastic change in capacitance and / or inductance due to differences in cable design have the same effect ?

You are willing to apply specific arguments as to why specific changes are not audible, but when you are asked to apply that same logic as to why they "could" be audible, those variables and equations are no longer acceptable.

THIS is the main reason that most audiophiles and "music lovers" abhor these threads and this topic. Most DBT enthusiasts are simply hypocrites with closed minds. To be fair though, there are those that do perform such tests with open minds under very controlled and realistic conditions. They do this in order to further our understanding, knowing that there is much that we do not know and still need to learn. To those folks, i say "kudo's" and "keep up the good work".

To those that need an explanation for all things and don't believe in things they can't explain, i can only respond with the following passage: "Claiming themselves to be wise, they were made as fools". Just because we can't physically see moisture and condensation being wicked up into the atmosphere and collecting in clouds, that does not mean that it doesn't rain. Just because they believed the Earth to be flat, people did not fall off the edge when travelling "too far" in one direction. Just because they believed that the Earth was the center of the universe, the planets in our solar system did not stop revolving around the Sun. As such, just because we as humans don't understand or have the knowledge to explain does not mean "it is so". If some of you can't grasp the reality of that and think that mankind knows all that we need to know, i feel sorry for you. Sean
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Oh, Sean, I didnt mean anything by it. I was referring to another thread in which I had said that salespeople couldnt tell things apart. This was, at the time of my post above, a relatively friendly thread, and I was just trying to be friendly despite our differences.

Back on topic, obviously, a lot of people feel threatened by the very mention of a DBT, apparently afraid of something. I am not an advocate of DBT's for the average audiophile. Too inconvenient for one thing, and for another, I've never participated in one. I just listen to stuff, get up, change the cables and listen to the other component. If I am acting on my imagination rather than perfectly accurate hearing, I don't really care, because I'm not designing, reviewing or selling anything, and my imagination so far is fairly consistent. Oh, yeah, there's that expectation thing - what the hell, whatever works.

I think those who hate the concept of a DBT should just go about their business secure that no one will ever force them into undergoing such an unpleasant procedure. Nothing to be afraid of. But I am pleased that the designers of the audio components and speakers I buy use them in their work and that a few legitimate audio reviewers also use them.

Paul
Sean, I was not referring specifically to cables, though it seems the tone of this discourse went in that direction.

I was talking about blind testing,in general.

Jim
It's controversial mainly because most people don't understand the methodology of DB test or even how to interpret results.

First, DBTs are probably not very useful as a means of selecting components for most people. Not because they wouldn't reveal audible differences, but simply that there are many factors that drive preference in addition to sound. Even in cases where there are no *audible* difference between components (a lot more common that most A'goners will admit, clearly), that doesn't preclude differences in other attributes that lead to real, valid, non-questionable preferences for one component over the other.

Second, the claims that DBTs inherently obscure differences, or that you can't hear differences in a DBT format, just factually don't fly. DBTs have been shown to resolve differences down to the theoretical limits of hearing.

What's really hilarious, though, are the claims that those who support DBTs do so to avoid buying high-priced gear. That somehow they're all so confused by the vast array of components that they run and bury their heads in scientific sand. No, the real reason that DBTs exist is the well documented tendency for people to see things that aren't there (and the converse) and to hear things that don't exist (and the converse there as well). Humans seem to be wired this way - to "over detect" - and DBTs work to eliminate this effect, apparently to the discomfort of many.