Why is Double Blind Testing Controversial?

Oh, Sean, I didnt mean anything by it. I was referring to another thread in which I had said that salespeople couldnt tell things apart. This was, at the time of my post above, a relatively friendly thread, and I was just trying to be friendly despite our differences.

Back on topic, obviously, a lot of people feel threatened by the very mention of a DBT, apparently afraid of something. I am not an advocate of DBT's for the average audiophile. Too inconvenient for one thing, and for another, I've never participated in one. I just listen to stuff, get up, change the cables and listen to the other component. If I am acting on my imagination rather than perfectly accurate hearing, I don't really care, because I'm not designing, reviewing or selling anything, and my imagination so far is fairly consistent. Oh, yeah, there's that expectation thing - what the hell, whatever works.

I think those who hate the concept of a DBT should just go about their business secure that no one will ever force them into undergoing such an unpleasant procedure. Nothing to be afraid of. But I am pleased that the designers of the audio components and speakers I buy use them in their work and that a few legitimate audio reviewers also use them.

Paul

Sean, I was not referring specifically to cables, though it seems the tone of this discourse went in that direction.

I was talking about blind testing,in general.

Jim

It's controversial mainly because most people don't understand the methodology of DB test or even how to interpret results.

First, DBTs are probably not very useful as a means of selecting components for most people. Not because they wouldn't reveal audible differences, but simply that there are many factors that drive preference in addition to sound. Even in cases where there are no *audible* difference between components (a lot more common that most A'goners will admit, clearly), that doesn't preclude differences in other attributes that lead to real, valid, non-questionable preferences for one component over the other.

Second, the claims that DBTs inherently obscure differences, or that you can't hear differences in a DBT format, just factually don't fly. DBTs have been shown to resolve differences down to the theoretical limits of hearing.

What's really hilarious, though, are the claims that those who support DBTs do so to avoid buying high-priced gear. That somehow they're all so confused by the vast array of components that they run and bury their heads in scientific sand. No, the real reason that DBTs exist is the well documented tendency for people to see things that aren't there (and the converse) and to hear things that don't exist (and the converse there as well). Humans seem to be wired this way - to "over detect" - and DBTs work to eliminate this effect, apparently to the discomfort of many.

Sean, Sean, Sean. DBTs exist to serve ". . . those that need an explanation for all things and don't believe in things they can't explain"?? Before explaining a phenomenon, perhaps it is a good idea to demonstrate that the phenomenon exists in the first place. DBTs are used for exactly that purpose.

Hearhere, again why the need to insist or imply that the average audiophile is deceived. What are the "many factors that drive preference in addition to sound" besides ergonomics, convenience, and build quality.

In a Utopian sense I love the idea of DBT, I doubt I would ever take the time to evaluate a component this way however. It just isn't efficient or necessary for me to do so. I have no difficulty accepting, even admiring, someone's efforts to evaluate upgrades in this manner, but so many of the conclusions/preconceptions of some DBT disciples (or claimed disciples; see below) are so clearly absurd, then to have these faulty conclusions presented so forcefully as truth is somewhat vexing, if allowed under one's skin. I would expect the converse to be true as well when called names.

I also believe that many identified as DBT disciples probably are mislabeled and really should be identified more accurately as skeptics hitching themselves to the DBT banner. It would be interesting to find out how many in this category truly practice DBT methodology. Presumably these are the ones that subjective audiophiles find to be ignorant and grating when addressing issues that contradict truths revealed to the subjective disciple based on their personal experience. The subjective conclusion would be supported by DBT if all variables were controlled, assuming of course that subjective disciple is not deceived. What what this thread all about again?