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World's best Pre-amp for $10K and above?

Looking for the HOLY GRAIL in Audio? Here it is. I'm in my early sixties and retiring to my final system, which I was going to purchase during the past twelve months and decided to put on the brakes, and investigate whats out there as the most advanced engineered high end audio products for the money in the market place. As far as I'm concerned, the two top engineers in the world for the best Amp and Preamp at low prices are Bent Holter with Hegel Audio in Norway and Roger Sanders with Sanders Sound in Colorado. Why? The Hegel P-30 Pre-amp is a game changer, and will easily compete with Pre-amps at $30K and above. The FM Acoustics 268 Preamp that retails for $107K, uses a technology thats called "feedforward" instead of feedback.
Amps and Pre-amps since the early 80's have all used either global feedback, zero feedback or local feedback to filter out noise and lower distortion by sending and filtering the feedback current to filter capacitors or or an extra filter transformer. A small amount of voltage feedback occurs at the output stage in amps and preamps which goes back into the parts and boards causing noise and distortion which smears the quality of the music.The best Preamps in the world all have S/N noise ratios at 125 db's or above. The Hegel P-30 Preamp uses the same feedforward technology as FM Acoustics but is a more current design that Bent Holter calls "Sound Engine" patented technology that eliminates feedback which is why the P-30 Preamp has a S/N ratio of 132 db's, which has never been accomplished in high end audio with a Preamp costing $10K or below. The same applies to Roger Sanders Magtech amplifier which uses a patented linear voltage regulator that controls and regulates voltage with no excess voltage going back into the amp causing heat and distortion problems. The amp puts out 900 watts into 4ohms. Krell makes a pair of mono blocs that also use a similar voltage regulator. The amps are $100K a pair. HERES THE PERFECT SOLID STATE SYSTEM. A Hegel P-30 Preamp. A Sanders Magtech amp, A pair of Aerial Acoustics 7T speakers. The worlds finest SACD player, the Playback Designs MPS-5, designed by Andreas Koch, who invented SACD technology when he worked for Sony. He built the worlds first outboard DAC in 1982 and is legend in digital engineering. The MPS-5 is the most analog sounding player on the market which costs $17K. The Hegel P-30 is only $7500.00 and the Magtech amp is only $5K. The Aerials are $10K. Buy the solid core cables from Morrow Audio. They are low capacitance cables which matches up perfectly with these components. This combination sounds like the very best tube and solid state gear on the market. The whole system will cost about $42K but will sound as good as any system costing $200K. All of these products are game changers. If you want better looking cabinets and faceplates, then blow your money, but you will not get better performance for what this system has to offer. It is the HOLY GRAIL you are searching for and there is no better combination for the total cost of the system.
audiozen
audiozen OP
831 posts
 
I do not just rely on specs to determine the musical
quality of an Amp or Preamp. If that were the case, I'd buy my separates through a mail order catalog without listening. The point I made is that the most expensive and most musical separates globally that sell in the $15K to $100K range, brands that are well recognized and have outstanding international reviews for years, all have specs that are in common with each other. Higher S/N ratio's, ultra low distortion, and wider bandwidth's and higher damping factor's. Its not that these audio engineers at these companies try to get the highest spec numbers first before listening, but just the opposite. They all strive to design products with the lowest noise and distortion possible to keep the music signal as pure as possible without any disturbance to the musical signal. By achieving this goal will always result in specs with very high numbers due to superior design engineering.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,901 posts
 
You can tailor the sound through the topology. For example, a purely-single-ended design will exhibit a 2nd order harmonic distortion which will give it a rich sound. If no feedback is used, it will not be harsh until pushed hard, but will feature dynamic character far above its actual power. Yet it will also have great inner detail as distortion vanishes at lower power levels. Sound familiar?

Sunn, a well-known guitar amplifier company, used to make a line of transistor amplifiers back in the 1970s that were recognized for their rich sound. They employed a single-ended zero feedback FET preamp which was primarily responsible- that 2nd harmonic was the richness.

A tube amp with a single-ended input and a push pull output will exhibit a 2nd harmonic with a prominent 5th. The 2nd will be less than that of an SET so it will be less rich, and the 5th will contribute to brightness and some hardness by comparison.

Choosing what topology IOW says a lot about how the resulting circuit will sound. The art part of it is understanding the human hearing perceptual rules, as in general the audio industry tries its best to ignore them. So designers have to educate themselves about that subject, and sort out what it is exactly that they are trying to do. IMO this is still engineering, but I can see some calling it 'art' and maybe it is...
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
When solid state components tout ultra low distortion numbers are they just referring to 2nd order or low order reduction in general?And perhaps not accounting for the higher odd order that they produce in place of? the high order odd distortion sounds worse than the low even order distortion by far IMO.Musical instruments produce low order even harmonics rather than high odd order harmonics.
peterayer
1,382 posts
 
So do we agree that competent designers listen to their designs as part of the development process? If so, than the decisions to use certain parts and reject others are based on objective engineering principles and then refined by the subjective act of listening until a design meets a particular set of goals. It's a combination of art and science and it appears that what we call it is a matter of semantics.

Now, what ever happened to the Hegel P30? Does anyone own this thing?
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,518 posts
 
I find the topic of parts quality in amps very interesting. There is a well known amp builder in Minnesota that blew me away after I spoke with him. I was interested In buying one of his hybrid amps that is pretty well reviewed. Small company and pretty well respected. Van Alstine. I was ready to buy one, but did not after our conversation. He is a nice guy and builds nice products. When I asked him about the caps he used he quickly and and somewhat defensively started on a long attack against "so called audiophile" caps. He does not listen or should I say purchase based on listening tests, but by specs and adherence to very exacting specs. He is a spec guy.

I know he is very skilled and educated in the area of electronics. I respect him for that. But I know from real and repeated experience that caps do sound different - and some better then others - period. I have replaced many cheap caps in key positions with Mundorf SGO's and Duelund CAST caps and each and every time with Big improvements realized. These caps sounded better In gear that was well designed and highly reviewed.

I simply cannot buy from a builder who stongly feels all well speced caps, resistors, wire etc... sound the same in anything he makes. The builder must listen and make decisions based on listening tests and trial. This should be priority number one! Yes, the cap needs to be off high quality and last etc...

I just cannot understand how a knowledgable builder can dismiss what is so easily discerned through the ears? Perhaps my hearing is wrong and I have convinced myself of something that is not real? Perhaps these caps that measure well sound good enough or close enough to the builder and he does not appreciate the nuances that make Hifi sound more like real music? Nuances that make a big difference to me may be nothing to another. Again, I suppose that is why I did not buy or try his amp.

I would love to take one of his amps and replace several key signal caps with Duelunds and listen. I suppose it's possible his amp would sound no different, but this would be the one and only time such a result transpired based on my experience and others I know.

I understand if the builder must hit a price point and watch costs, but to passionately state that this audiophile boutique cap stuff is all bull is out of bounds to this Aphile.
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