Your opinion on the evolution of amps since 70s?

Well,I have had the same audio timeline as you, Justin Time.Bug in 60's.College in 70's.I have to agree with your findings,with just a slight spin,based on my own experience.

I have a good amount of NY area based Audio pals,with high end set-ups,ranging from tube to solid state.Though I have absolutely no preference to either the tube or solid state debate.However I have found that certain mfgrs design to a specific type (not that it is written in stone).Myself:My Avalon Ascents(modded twice)were designed with a Rowland 8,by the mfgr.Not to say that it cannot sound great with other fine choices,and I've heard other amps on the same speakers,at other homes,over the years,that were fabs!However since I have the Rowland 8t,with an additional chassis(this used to house the battery P/S),I felt it better served my interests to have Jeff Rowland further update this,second chassis,with the new switch mode power supply,which gives me more power and pure D/C.The results have been superb,and I truly cannot determine any specific tube/solid state signature(without rationalizing).

The point being;it is surely system dependent,once one has a bit of experience,in this hobby,and some common sense.Yet,I really DO love my pal's tube based CJ/Infinity/Air Tangent-VPI based set-up.Boy do I ever!!!

Actually I love almost any really good system,that has an owner who has a real sense of "music",and not the "marketing buzz,latest hot component of the month" attitude.Best of luck!!

Jay, your assessment is opposite of mine but I respect it, especially since my own opinion of ss-amp improvement was not based on direct comparison but only on my recollection and experience. It seems to me, however, that for about 20 years (late 70s to mid-90s), each time I replaced a ss amp in my system (Dynaco, Yamaha, Hafler, Adcom, GAS, PS audio, B & K, Threshold, Krell, Rowland Research), the new one was always a little better than its predecessor. After all, they incorporated new designs, such as zero feedback, class A, high current, extended bandwidth, MOSFET, JFET, stiff power supply, dual mono construction, balanced inputs, high-quality parts capacitors & resistors in critical areas, etc. So, I logically concluded that my current ss amps must be much better than the one I owned in the late 70s. I still believe that.

Out of curiosity, I dusted off my old Hafler (early 80s vintage) from my storage room and hooked it up to my current system. And the sound was…far worse than I remembered: grainy, dry, very Hi-fi and not musical at all. The focus and soundstage were particularly disappointing. Even my low-cost B & K ST120 (late 80s/early 90s) sounded significantly better in every respect except perhaps punch. I would not overstretch my recollection to say that any of the ss amps from the mid-80s to the mid-90s by Audio Research, Counterpoint, Krell, Mark Levinson, Rowland Research, Threshold, etc. would sound better than vintage ss amps from the late 70s to early 80s.

You mentioned Mr. Kloss, a man I greatly respect and admire, and his famous Advent speakers. What a coincidence. I dusted off m y AR 3a and Large Advent speakers—you guessed it! I never throw anything away—which were considered some of the best speakers in the late 70s and early 80s. I hooked them up to my current electronics. Their sound was…disappointing! The bass was deep but ponderous and muddy; the midrange was OK but not terribly dynamic; the top end was muffled, lacking in sparkles. As in the Hafler’s case, the overall sound of these speakers was Hi-fi rather than musical. I grant you that comparing these speakers to today’s better speakers was probably unfair. But even compared to my Celestion video speakers, the venerable AR and Advent sounded hopelessly outdated and outclassed. I would venture to say that many speakers from the 80s to mid-90s like the Magnapan II or III, Marti-Logan CLS, Vandersteen, Thiel, KEF, just to name those I am very familiar with, would easily outperform the vintage AR 3a and Large Advent. The parallel may be instructive though I am getting way off the topic of amplifier evolution. Sorry.

Amps are amps. The technology has reached a plateau decades ago. Can't wait for the bricks to fly. Duck!

i;m sorry justin, the hafler was indeed a mediocre studio grade amp, more than a hi-fi piece. i was never a fan of the ar3, but as for the large advent, i have a vintage pair that will go toe to toe with most of the speakers you've named, provided it is used with a any powerful, clean amp ss or tube. ponderous and muddy in the bass, only if 'it' is in the recording. sort of a bigger, rowdier LS 3/5 or epi 100. it is more neutral than my gradient revolutions. many of the ss brands you have mentioned built their best stuff in the 1980's. the marantz and kenwood ss heyday was much earlier. i currently own mac ss and tube gear (as well as some other odds and ends)but even a vintage mac mc7300 is more neutral than the the models that replaced it. i currently have an mc602 (wish i still had the 7300). my mc275 II is nice but its no marantz 8b. even the marantz 8b knock offs and clones don't quite get there. somewhere along the line, we all forget that we enjoyed music more when we were just looking for something decent to play it on. the marketplace today is getting smaller by the minute. the inventory in a typical classical music dept turns less than one time a year today. jazz as a catagory(without nora jones)makes up less than 5% of music sales. artists are being dropped from major labels daily. meanwhile some guy wants to sell us a pair of loudspeakers that cost $10,000 and are sure to favor one catagory of music over another. i can see the ad now......'great for acoustic jazz and female vocals' GOD HELP THE AUDIOPHILE-me included

Jay, I wished I had the chance to hear real vintage tube amps. My experience started with Conrad-Johnson, passing through Audio Reaserch and ending with BAT today. I alternately use a solid-state amp in my system as well.

I think the obscene price increase in audio started tentatively in the mid-80s with cartridges prices that jumped from around $100-$200 to $500 and more. This price surge really took off in the mid-90s with cables (from $50-100 to $500-1,000 per pair). After that, $10,000 amps and $20,000 speakers became the norm rather than the exception. Most audio hobbyists and enthusiasts cannot afford today's prices of high-end audio.

I think the demise of the music business as we knew it started when they proclaimed at the birth of CD that its digital sound was "perfect." It's been downhill ever since. The Internet is just the straw that broke the camel's back. It's depressing to go to any music section of Border's, or worse, Barnes & Noble: it's deserted most of the time. Being an engineer, I like the convenience of the Internet and MP3; the heavily compressed sound is OK on my iPod and in my car, but it is unacceptable in my home system.

The music scene is on the verge of a dramatic change. I hope there is a place for lovers of both great music and great sound like us in the new scene but I am not holding my breath.

I think I'm going to play my Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon LP to cheer me up!