Your opinion on the evolution of amps since 70s?


What is your opinion on the evolution of high-end amplifiers since the 70s?

I use the word “high-end” here not in the snobbish sense, but as a way of separating amplifiers designed for great sound from those intended for mass consumption. I am interested especially in the sound- and design changes of these amplifiers but would not mind reading about other aspects as well, such as build quality, prices and values. I read lively discussions on this topic on another site. Below is my take on the subject. I look forward to reading yours.

I caught the Hi-fi bugs in high school in the late 60s. This hobby quickly turned into an obsession in the 70s while I was still in college. I was seriously into high-end audio equipment in the 80s and 90s until their prices escaladed well beyond what I was willing to spend. Now I am just coasting.

I feel that from the 70s to the 90s amplifiers steadily improved in design, construction, and sound, especially solid-state (ss) amps. Today’s high-end amplifiers are generally more powerful and more sophisticated than their predecessors with sounds that are noticeably more refined as well. Interestingly, the sounds of ss and tube amps, quite far apart in the 70s, came closer together every passing decade though they never quite merge. Today’s ss have the edge on power, bass and treble extension while improved tube amps remain king of the midrange.

It is really a shame that the mid-90s witnessed an unconscionable price escalation leading to the inevitable shrinking of high-end audio. The much higher prices made cost-no-object designs possible but they also caused the large community of audio hobbyists and enthusiasts of the 70s and 80s to dwindle down to a much smaller group today. The design progress suffers.

That’s my short take on the subject. I can’t wait to read what Audiogoners have to say.
justin_time
S23Chang, I guess we disagree on tubes but are in agreement with ss-amp improvement.

I get outstanding sound out of the BATs with Watts'puppies, Celestion, and Avalon Ascent.

On ss amps, I would add that even later products (up to mid-90s) could be excellent bargains. You can get very sophisticated ss amps by Counterpoint, Krell, Pass Lab, etc., even class-A amps, for $1000-$1500 or less (e.g. Threshold). Furthemore, slight modifications to some of these amps can make a significant improvement to the sound, but that's another story altogether.
the answer is no....even the vintage ss amps from tandberg,revox,mac,sumo,marantz,sonographe(cj)naim,quad,kenwood,and dozens of others sound as refined as anything being made today at any price. i recently came across an advent speaker brochure from the seventies that actually encouraged the consumer to spend as little as possible on an amplifier. kloss was a genius. a whole generation of us grew up on 'common sense' hi fi designed by guys who were as bright as any rocket scientist, yet loved music. the goal was music apreciation. well designed products favored no music catagory. a 'well designed' amp or speaker favored no catagory of music. hi end manufacturers and their consumers now have the same relationship as pushers and junkies. no amount of money is enough,and satisfaction is never guaranteed.
Well,I have had the same audio timeline as you, Justin Time.Bug in 60's.College in 70's.I have to agree with your findings,with just a slight spin,based on my own experience.

I have a good amount of NY area based Audio pals,with high end set-ups,ranging from tube to solid state.Though I have absolutely no preference to either the tube or solid state debate.However I have found that certain mfgrs design to a specific type (not that it is written in stone).Myself:My Avalon Ascents(modded twice)were designed with a Rowland 8,by the mfgr.Not to say that it cannot sound great with other fine choices,and I've heard other amps on the same speakers,at other homes,over the years,that were fabs!However since I have the Rowland 8t,with an additional chassis(this used to house the battery P/S),I felt it better served my interests to have Jeff Rowland further update this,second chassis,with the new switch mode power supply,which gives me more power and pure D/C.The results have been superb,and I truly cannot determine any specific tube/solid state signature(without rationalizing).

The point being;it is surely system dependent,once one has a bit of experience,in this hobby,and some common sense.Yet,I really DO love my pal's tube based CJ/Infinity/Air Tangent-VPI based set-up.Boy do I ever!!!

Actually I love almost any really good system,that has an owner who has a real sense of "music",and not the "marketing buzz,latest hot component of the month" attitude.Best of luck!!
Jay, your assessment is opposite of mine but I respect it, especially since my own opinion of ss-amp improvement was not based on direct comparison but only on my recollection and experience. It seems to me, however, that for about 20 years (late 70s to mid-90s), each time I replaced a ss amp in my system (Dynaco, Yamaha, Hafler, Adcom, GAS, PS audio, B & K, Threshold, Krell, Rowland Research), the new one was always a little better than its predecessor. After all, they incorporated new designs, such as zero feedback, class A, high current, extended bandwidth, MOSFET, JFET, stiff power supply, dual mono construction, balanced inputs, high-quality parts capacitors & resistors in critical areas, etc. So, I logically concluded that my current ss amps must be much better than the one I owned in the late 70s. I still believe that.

Out of curiosity, I dusted off my old Hafler (early 80s vintage) from my storage room and hooked it up to my current system. And the sound was…far worse than I remembered: grainy, dry, very Hi-fi and not musical at all. The focus and soundstage were particularly disappointing. Even my low-cost B & K ST120 (late 80s/early 90s) sounded significantly better in every respect except perhaps punch. I would not overstretch my recollection to say that any of the ss amps from the mid-80s to the mid-90s by Audio Research, Counterpoint, Krell, Mark Levinson, Rowland Research, Threshold, etc. would sound better than vintage ss amps from the late 70s to early 80s.

You mentioned Mr. Kloss, a man I greatly respect and admire, and his famous Advent speakers. What a coincidence. I dusted off m y AR 3a and Large Advent speakers—you guessed it! I never throw anything away—which were considered some of the best speakers in the late 70s and early 80s. I hooked them up to my current electronics. Their sound was…disappointing! The bass was deep but ponderous and muddy; the midrange was OK but not terribly dynamic; the top end was muffled, lacking in sparkles. As in the Hafler’s case, the overall sound of these speakers was Hi-fi rather than musical. I grant you that comparing these speakers to today’s better speakers was probably unfair. But even compared to my Celestion video speakers, the venerable AR and Advent sounded hopelessly outdated and outclassed. I would venture to say that many speakers from the 80s to mid-90s like the Magnapan II or III, Marti-Logan CLS, Vandersteen, Thiel, KEF, just to name those I am very familiar with, would easily outperform the vintage AR 3a and Large Advent. The parallel may be instructive though I am getting way off the topic of amplifier evolution. Sorry.
Amps are amps. The technology has reached a plateau decades ago. Can't wait for the bricks to fly. Duck!