Your opinion on the evolution of amps since 70s?

the cost of manufacturing consumer electronics as a percentage of wholesale(this includes hi end audio)has dropped from about 35% to less than 10% in the last 35 years. the only two places to see increases have been cardboard and transportation. that $20,000 system has a hard cost of around $2000 today. this obviously does not apply to the diy'ers who took out a second mortgage to fund a company commited to building an s.e.t. capable of....well...not much. i love music, but this industry has got to be based on value for the dollar like any other.

Hi jay_douglas_287@msn.com to some degree you are correct but only for certain parts and materials. In 1970, Teflon parts were astronomical in price- about $1,000 apiece in round numbers, today a Teflon part is a fraction of that. But Caddock resistors and other similar parts did not even exist back then and are quite pricy today. Some Caddock resistors retail for well over $25.00 each. We could use 3 cent resistors and 35 cent coupling caps but the gear would sound bad!

One must also figure the cost of labor and the cost of small manufacturing. If you want something that is stamped out by the 10,000s of units in China, it might be cheap. But if a product is made by hand with proper materials in the US, and only ten of them are made at a time you are simply going to have to pay for it. Its a good bet that the stamped out unit is not going to sound as good too, because by definition less care goes into its existance. You do get what you pay for (although there are shills in any industry).

When I designed our product line I started with the idea of putting the dollars into the performance rather then the cosmetics and that is our ideal today. But we pay the price- often our products are not taken seriously because it *is* less expensive then the competition that it beats! and because we don't have a 1" thick gold panel on the equipment. At the same time though, our stuff is not cheap, because we are only interested in an assult on state of the art, so we have custom built switches, filter caps, resistors and capacitors- this stuff costs very dear even in large quantities. Yes, we could build with lesser materials and parts but now we are not being the best that we can be- which is not what high end audio is all about (hopefully each of us in the industry believes in what we are doing and are building the best stuff that we know how).

If high end audio is shrinking, it is not due to prices, so much as it has to do with public awarness, which is a subject of a different thread.

Off the topic, There are too many things to do these days than audio ( computer, internet, HT setup, gaming..etc.)

Inflation also driven the price higher these days.

i.e. MacIntosh MC275 used to cost $300 back in the 60s ( gas was only a nickel per gallon.) but it is worth over $3000 for the same amp from the 60s. If you buy the non collectable amps from that same era like the Citation preamp and amps for under $1000 today, you got a pretty nice equipment.

i have no problem with any specialty company making a healthy profit, or appealing to audiophiles who love the look and the touch as much as the sound. i've had a room full of audio toys since high school ('71) and have been in the music and movie business(and hi fi too) for over 30 years. as much as i'm passionate about music and as much as i love the hobby, it scares me that someone with the ability to spend $100,000 on hardware would do it under the myth that it has superior performance because it can only be purchased by 300 people globally. i've worked with the finest engineers and soundmen on the west coast and not one of them believes that hi end has gotten 'better' in any regard. they are always asked to add bass that wasn't originally there, and bring the voal up in the mix to give us the thrill of thinking the reissue is better. kill the tape noise, etc etc....no one wants a balanced presentation, not in the studio or the home. consumers should only trust their ears after they use common sense. the branding of gear from china to prompt the emotional purchase of a product that has a historically rich name, is shameful.

I'm with Ralph(Atmasphere)on this one and I see "high-end" as a long term investment to be made carefully and enjoyed. That is why I have put my money where my mouth is and I now am the proud owner of a pair of Atma-Sphere Silver Edition MA-1 MkII.3 mono blocks and I could not be happier camper imo. Thanks Ralph. Great thread Justin_time. Enjoy!