Eminent Technology ET-2 Tonearm Owners

Slaw - there are enough variations in the degree of trueness that leaves me extremely conscious of the importance of the ability to machine as true as possible.

Richardkrebs - Getting accurate alignment when two components are brought together from different manufacturers, without the ability to adjust, would be pure luck.

Slaw, RK, others...

From my experience with 7 or 8 TT’s it is very difficult imo for a TT manufacturer (without naming brands) at certain cost points to reach a certain degree of trueness between the tonearm platform and the platter (all the way around it). What I have personally learned, when you come upon a serious manufactured TT design; a different standard/level of trueness is found among other good things. Just an observation.

But then no two records are true....the source media.... and records provide a medium to reveal amazing things..... as long as the stylus is placed as correctly as possible in the groove.

So how correct is correct ? What does correct mean. Some food for thought.....

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From 25 years ago. Not much has changed.....
“The angle that the cutterhead is placed at when a record is cut results in an included angle in the final disc. This included angle must be duplicated with the reproducing stylus or distortion will result. The problem today lies in standardization of the angle by record manufacturers and corresponding standardization by cartridge manufacturers. Presently most records are cut with resulting vertical angles between 16 and 20 degrees. The average vertical angles of cartridges manufactured today is slightly higher than 22 degrees. The result of this mismatch is less than optimum performance for many cartridges.
Although the vertical energy contained in a record represents approximately 40% of the total energy on the record (60% lateral). The distortion levels we are dealing with are quite high. In some cases, the vertical performance with certain types of distortion can be improved from 2.5% to 1% or less.”
Taken from Page 51 ET2 manual
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Hi Bruce - a question from your past testing if you have the answer.

Did you find any relation between the included angle of vinyl records and their thickness.

Example -
Is it possible to assume that that you can have two same thickness records with different included angles?

Thanks Chris


Chris,

The standard was supposed to be 20 degrees, when you talk to people who cut records, they do not check, so it turns out to be random, close to 20 degrees, but not exact. Yes, two records of the same thickness could require different VTA settings. I hope this helps.

brucet

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This tells me if we are going to be anal about level trueness we need to be anal about VTA because the records are cut with random included angles!

Different records even if they are the same thickness, can have different included angles. This explains to me why same thickness records sound different (bass compression / HF’s ) with the same cartridge sometimes in my room. We really do need to trust our own ears with our own cartridges and not assume a certain degree of setup for cartridge X with all our records.

So ?

For me it is very good and desirable to therefore have a high degree of level trueness (tonearm platform and platter) but it is only half the battle.

I have discovered the other half of the battle is the ability of the tonearm to adjust so that the stylus can be placed at different VTA angles in the black disc – conveniently. Meaning as the records is playing as I am listening !

Vinyl is a total mechanical process and I don’t want to stop my listening routine to adjust more parameters.

So to me having with the ET2 unlike any other tonearm I have ever personally owned .........VTA on the fly that works (meaning it does not change cartridge VTF and overhang) while the records is spinning is very important.

In the past I considered removing the ET2 VTA mechanism (I thought to make it more rigid/less resonant in effect). You see for me personally I don’t change VTA for every record. I am not that anal. But there are some records that are off compared to the other mediums digital and tape and it is noticeable in my room. I would not be without VTA on the fly with my tonearm.

Slaw – I think we are thinking the same thing in your last post ....

RichardKrebs - Yes lifting off at record end is an interesting exercise

Richard

moving speakers an inch and listening to the differences is interesting.

Changing out footers and listening to the differences can be interesting.

Trying some NZ Pinot Gris sounds really interesting !

Taking out an expensive cartridge... not interesting. :(

Which end for the trough? The one with the least amount of joins and material changes before we get to the cartridge. In my most humble opinion :-)

Great idea!

Slaw
Yes the arm has considerable vta adjustment but it cannot easily be done while playing. Chris's post clearly shows the importance of correct vta.
This adjustment on the standard ET2 with the curved pillar is a brilliant design feature and one that is was unable to emulate with mine due to the machining capability I could access back then. MK2 will address this.
Other than the three wand positions, alignment adjustments are facilitated via the gooseneck like the original.

Here is a conundrum. Stylus drag is significant, being able to slow some TT platters. What effect does this force have on cartridge alignment?
Since the cantilever is angled down towards the record, any change in drag would tend to increase or decrease this angle.
Does this mean that the stylus is not only moving in the desired x and y axises but also in the z axis due to changes in drag, I.e modulation level and frequency?
It is amazing that we get anything that sounds like music off LPs. This given the myriad of compromises and the lack of industry standards

Another Pinot Gris I think.

I can only add: when I set up a cartridge, I try hard to set the appropriate VTA for said cartridge in the "neutral zone", (my term), of the arc block. The "neutral zone".... This to me is the (center range) of the arc block, where as if I adjust upward or downward, it will have the least effect on overhang, ( which I choose to reserve for differring weights of vinyl), this is in fact the center of the arc. Logic 101! Yes, I choose to make this adjustment for the differring thickness of vinyl records. What makes the ET such a great arm (for me)is for such a choice. Despite what is written in the manual, an up or down adjustment of the arc block results in another adjustment that needs to be corrected for overhang. There is no doubt about it! Yes, I'm probably anal. So what?! If we are going to the lengths we go to to extract every inth of information from vinyl, that to me is a definition of anal. Why Fremer chose years ago to suddenly forgo this, is beyond me and frankly deminished any respect I once had for him.

Slaw- from my experience if another adjustment is needed for overhang, something is off in the setup. To break down the set up we have 3 sections.

1) Sub-base plate – the one with the 3 leveling spikes and the one bolt holding the arm. Holds all the goods.

2) Mounting base and post. (includes the VTA arc block) – holds manifold, spindle, armtube, counterweight. Mounting post needs to be level and true with platter level for VTA to work properly.

3)The actual manifold housing, air bearing spindle, along with the armtube and counterweight.

If the ET2 is setup properly, the mounting base post should be level and true with your platter. The mounting base post is after all what holds the VTA gearing that raises and lowers the ET2. The platter is what the stylus overhang reference gauge rests on. The two are a marriage.

Check level on both. How true they are to each other will determine imo how true your overhang is when you raise and lower the VTA.