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Dealing with a large TV between speakers

Thought I'd post this since it's a glaring problem (somewhat literally, very figuratively). I've got a 50" rear projection LCD TV between my speakers that has to be there for many reasons (HT/living room/etc). Soundstaging on the x and y planes seems OK, perhaps a little narrow, but forget about the Z plane. All the action seems to take place horizontally between speakers, with vocals perhaps a bit projected forward.

I've done the Master Set method on my speakers. They are ~3ft from the rear wall and about 7.5' apart (measured from drivers) . The TV is about 20" out from the rear wall and 4.5' wide. There is roughly 18" between the speakers and the sides of the TV.

For a better visual, I've created a drawing here that I've used for submission to various acoustic panel websites.

As you can see, speakers and TV are along the long wall, and I only have about 12' total between that wall and the wall behind me. I can't move the speakers out too much more, and based on Master Set and the rule of thirds, they seem to be where they should and they do sound good there (no bass bloat, clear imaging, etc). There is roughly 2' of space between the rear wall and my head.

What I've done so far for treatment are the acoustic and diffusion panels you see in the picture, and I've wrapped thick round foam pipe insulation (the tubes you can buy at Home Depot) vertically along the sides of the TV, which seems to help. I've also experimented with hanging a diffusion panel or light foam panels over the front of the TV to cover the front. However, I'm not noticing much of a difference with the front of the TV treated or not, surprisingly (I assumed that there would be more glare and smearing with such a large, untreated, reflective surface between the speakers and directly in front of me).

Outside of throwing a blanket over the TV (which I tried, didn't really work) do you see any way to accomplish more depth to the soundstage? Questions and comments welcome, but keep in mind, I can't move the TV.
tholt
bryoncunningham
890 posts
 
...speakers and TV are along the long wall, and I only have about 12' total between that wall and the wall behind me.

As you seem well aware, this is the heart of the problem. As I see it, you must play a game of inches. The solution, suggested by several posters, of moving your speakers farther into the room, and thus closer to you, is a natural one, and worth experimenting with. I have a fear about that solution, however, which is that, by getting your (I believe) 3 way speakers closer to you than (the current) 9 feet, you may have problems with driver integration, i.e., coherence. To me, that is a more important consideration than soundstage depth.

In light of that, I agree with Mark's suggestion of getting a flat panel TV and wall mounting it. If I interpreted your measurements correctly, that would place the surface of the TV at least ten inches further back from the drivers of the speakers than it is currently. I know that's not a huge amount, but like I said, this is a game of inches.

The other thing I would consider experimenting with, if you haven't already, is moving your speakers a little farther apart, so that you are a bit closer to an equilateral triangle. I don't think that will improve soundstage depth per se, but it should enlarge the soundstage on the x axis, and possibly enlarge the image sizes slightly, which might compensate, psychologically, for the lack of soundstage depth.

Good luck!

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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
Your problem is not the TV - you are sitting along the short axis of the room. Have you ever seen a concert hall designed this way? No. And for good reason, the acoustic are not good in the orientation you have chosen
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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
You also sit with your head near a wall - this is well known to collapse the soundstage and make if feel claustrophobic or constrained.

It has nothing to do with your TV.
bryoncunningham
890 posts
 
I agree with Shadorne that the principal problem lies in your system's orientation along the long wall. I assumed, looking and your photos and overhead plan, that moving the system to the short wall was not an option. If that is an option, then that will be your best solution by far.

However, if you must keep your system on the long wall, then I respectfully disagree with Shadorne that your television is not a factor in your efforts to get the best sound possible with that configuration. I too have a large TV screen between my speakers. When I sit down to listen, I place a large piece of acoustic foam (12" in depth) in front of the TV screen. This minimizes undesirable comb filtering effects by reducing first order reflections from the TV. The result, IME, is an audible improvement in image focus and soundstage depth.
learsfool
1,215 posts
 
Looking at your drawing, I would definitely agree with Shadorne that the TV is not the main issue. In fact, I would say that the sliding glass door behind the left speaker, and the entryway behind the right speaker probably have even more to do with the loss in your soundstage depth than the TV in-between the speakers does. But the main thing is that they should ideally be on one of the short walls.

My brother has a similar situation to yours, and also has a large TV between his speakers. He experimented with removing the TV (and also covering it as you did) and found it made no significant difference to the overall soundstage, so he put it back. He unfortunately cannot place his speakers on the short wall. If you can, this is by far the best solution. If not, I would also consider curtaining the screen door somehow, and if there is not a door on that entryway, considering putting something there as well.

I myself have a large plasma TV between my speakers (as well as my audio rack, for that matter), but they are on a short wall and the speakers are also horns, so their shape minimizes the effects of the room anyway by directing the sound much more where I want it to go, even though the set-up is very far from a theoretical ideal. I also have plenty of diffusion throughout the room, which is also much larger, so I have plenty of space behind the listening spot. The effect of the TV is therefore very minor in my set-up. I have a huge soundstage however you want to measure it - width, depth or height. I am sure it could be improved by better placement, but that is not possible with the other furniture in the room. I hope someday to have a dedicated room, but that is years off yet.
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