small companies making today's best products

I'd like to comment on one thing Elizabeth said:

"[C]learly the small company is a risk for a 'small pockets' buyer. If one is spending money they cannot afford to just burn, then it behooves them to buy a product they can depend on."

Now I can't speak for all small companies, but obviously I share some of the same mentality. I use parts that have several times the power handling typically "needed" for the application. And in my home audio speakers, I use only off-the-shelf parts. So if I hit a moose on the way home from the bar the same night that you blow your tweeters, you can get on the internet and find replacements in five minutes. I don't "pot" my crossovers, so if a crossover component does fail, it's easy for your technician to find it and replace it.

In six years of building home audio speakers, I've had zero component failures. Well there was that pair of scortched crossover boards after a very heavy Pantera session (I use much bigger resistors now), and the time I failed to screw down a connection tightly (d'oh!), but neither was an actual component failure.

And if anyone were to have something fail, they'd get to talk to the company president/engineer/service department all at once... assuming he and the moose hadn't had their rendezvous with fate yet. Or worst-case scenario, there's nothing in there a local technician can't diagnose and replace.

A big company watching the bottom line may choose to specify parts that cut it a lot closer, as far as durability and longevity. I don't have the time & resources to figure out which part will be just barely adequate but allow me to save thousands in the long run. And since I don't have a fiduciary responsibility to shareholders, nor a controlling board of directors who can fire me for it, it's my call.

A big company can weather the storm of putting one or two unreliable products out there. We little guys cannot. And very few of us do.

Back to the small-pockets buyer. Actually, the hard-core audiophile who doesn't have the big bucks is the one most likely to put in the due diligence that can lead him to one of these small companies you've never heard of. Most of us are doing something better than the big guys, and if that something coincides with the person's priorities, the result can be more cost-effective.

Imho, ime, ymmv, and yes I have a dog in this fight!

Duke

Interesting thread to say the least!

I've owned equipment built by larger manufacturers and expensive equipment built by one person operations. I've bought from dealers and I've bought direct. I've never bought from Audiogon but wouldn't rule it out in the future.

As to buying from larger versus smaller companies, there are a lot of ways to get to heaven. I personally prefer smaller handmade items for the reasons Duke explained above. My one addition to Duke's excellent post is that IMO, the biggest advantage the small manufacturer has is at the extremes of price and performance. Trying to compete with the big boys in terms of performance, fit and finish in the middle range of the high end is a much tougher gig. However, I think that for many (?most) audiophiles, larger manufacturers are better bet.

On the subject of audio dealers, that's really a local issue. My approach is to always purchase from the local guy provided his equipment provides similar performance and reasonably similar price. At times, I have paid a higher cost to support a local audio dealer. Here in Seattle, Tim Ratcliffe at Experience Audio is terrific. Jeff Catalano of High Water Sound is another example of an exemplary audio dealer who works to develop a relationship.

IMO, the industry is taking the wrong cues from the disinter-mediation brought about by the internet. Yes, it does lead to some audiophiles to chase price, but unethical dealers violated sales territories long before the internet existed. Rather than bringing the necessary value added to cultivate the fledgling audiophile, most dealers have a 'transactional' model. The industry needs to spend more energy developing enthusiastic audiophiles and music lovers.

I do believe that for audio dealerships to remain relevant beyond home theater installations, they need to reinvent their model. In part that involves an explanation of what value the audio dealer will bring to a long term customer relationship that justifies paying a higher price than can be found from an unknown entity on the internet. I understand this won't prevent some potential customers from abusing the audio dealer's time nor will it prevent others from 'graduating' from the dealership model to pursue smaller, esoteric gear. I am concerned that absent a significant change, specialty hi-end brick and mortar stores are doomed.

End of rant...

many "big" companies ship containers full of product that they know will have a 15 percent failure rate. if anyone thinks there is security in this go buy some mass produced crap and hang onto your warranty papers linus. or go to a local warranty/repair shop and see the mountain of mass produced crap not worth fixing in the dumpster. many products made by small companies work, work for a long time and are fixeable. they also increase in value.

A couple of comments:

1) The wisdom of buying big-name products.

The history of high-end audio is mostly a story of well-known brands that are now dead, or, to the extent they still exist, are merely trademarks purchased out of liquidation proceedings that now have nothing to do with the companies/people that gave those trademarks their reputations, or, those brands have been sold so many times and the current iterations are so far removed from the glory years that they are now completely different companies. It doesn't always play out this way, but ...

CounterPoint? Toast.

Bozak? Sold to Chinese buyers years ago.

Advent? I think the mark is now with Jensen, and current products have nothing to do with legendary products like the Advent Loudspeaker. Advent was started by Henry Kloss (... who left KLH to start Advent).

Mark Levinson? The man Mark Levinson was pushed out of Madrigal, founded Cello, left Cello, founded Red Rose, left Red Rose, and then was left by now ex-wife and Sex and the City star Kim Cattral. The company Mark Levinson was sold to Harmon seven years ago, at which point many people, including key R&D people, in the Orange, Connecticut, facility were fired and the remainder transferred to Harmon's facilities in Massachusetts, and you are invited to peruse the threads here to see what has become of Levinson now (one clue - consumer audio makes up a tiny part of Harmon's revenues).

Phase Linear? Sold to Pioneer by Bob Carver in the 70's, and sold by Pioneer to Recoton - now it's a car audio line. Bob Carver founded Carver, until he founded Sunfire (not sure what became of "Carver" the brand).

Krell? Sold to a private equity firm (that means it will be sold again in four to five years when the P.E. firm "exits"). After litigation with Krell founder Dan D'Agostino resulted in D'Agostino's definitive exit from Krell, D'Agostino has introduced an eponymously named amplifier.

Audio Research and Sonus Faber? Both very recently sold to an Italian private equity firm (maybe Bill Johnson and Franco Serblin have consulting agreements and will be around for awhile, but Johnson is 150 years old and Serblin must now be rich, so don't count on it).

McIntosh? Sold to Clarion in 1990. Then sold again in 2003. At least the stuff is still made in Binghampton.

Yeah, the big, well-known hi-fi companies are the epitome of reliability.

2) AudioOracle vs. Hobbyists.

He is right to complain about hobbyists who provide uninformed opinions on Audiogon. Asking a question on this forum is like screaming out a question in the mall parking lot - it's a miracle that serious industry people like Ralph Karstens bother to post here.

I respectfully beg to differ with Brother MrTennis' statement that "configuring quality stereo systems is no great mystery and does not require a degree from harvard". It is a great mystery and any graduate of Harvard that would like to help is damn welcome.

3) Buying reliable gear.

It's counter-intuitive to the uninformed, but if you're really worried about buying something that will hold up and be "fixable" years from now, buy tube gear, and preferably, tube gear that is point-to-point wired. The circuit in tube equipment is the tubes, and when you retube tube equipment, you basically have a new piece of equipment. Most tube gear can be figured out by a good tech after the manufacturer is no longer around, even where there's no schematic, and if the piece is point-to-point wired (i.e., does not use circuit boards), then an untrained monkey can probably fix it. Solid-state amps sometimes use output transistors that go out of production and that therefore can't be replaced when they break - these amps have to be scrapped. This won't happen with much tube gear, as many use the same pentodes and small-signal tubes that are used in the million or so tubed guitar amps sold every year. Tubes are user-replaceable, while solid-state gear has to be shipped off for a tech to replace.

Best reason to "buy small": guys like Duke, designer-manufacturers who will take the time to work with you. Since everybody agrees that both the corporate and cottage models can produce good kit, why not work with an actual person? I've never spoken with Duke, but he's unfailingly humble and helpful on these boards, something more people might try. He also makes good speakers.

He won't be here forever, but as Raquel so effectively shouted in the parking lot, neither will the corporate entities. Neither will the dealers. We won't, either!

J