Cryogenic treatment of an LP?

Geoffkait - Just because a select few can hear a difference doesn't mean that their ears are actually hearing the difference. The power of suggestion is strong, I prefer to think of it as "group think" but at this point I'm not sure enough believe for it to be considered a group.

In medical field new drugs are tested against placebo drugs because a certain percentage of people feel and actually get better medically taking a placebo. In the cases where they did actually get better it still had nothing to do with the placebo, the change was all in their heads. For a drug to work the people that improved taking the drug must be significantly higher than those that improve from taking the placebo.

I believe that it would be easy to duplicate the number of people that believe in the cryo improvement of an LP simply by taking two cables and telling them that one sounds better because of XYZ modification that really hasn't happened. I wish there were control groups in audio.

Theaudiotweak - The word filibuster comes to mind when I read your explainations. I don't believe that a stylus is small enough to be impacted in any way by a change in the molecule structure of an LP. That's like saying that you'd notice a difference driving a dump truck with 60 inch tires on 3000 grit vs. 3001 grit sand paper. Actually, this example is probably closer in orders of magnitude.

When it comes to metals that carry current I can at least conceive of a logical explaination for how it might make a difference but it still makes my head hurt a bit, but I simply connot come up with a logical connection when it comes to an LP. So far you're providing vague conjectures that have little practical value when it comes to an explaination.

Mceljo, of course it's true there is such a thing as the placebo effect, who would disagree with that? But the placebo effect can be rather eliminated as a cause of the effect through careful listening tests. After all, if the placebo effect couldn't be eliminated from testing of any audio component, cable or tweak how would be ever progress in audio? Have you given any consideration to the anti-placebo effect - the placebo effect's ugly sibling - for making naysayers deaf to the effects of some tweaks due to their pre-conceived notions about preposterous sounding tweaks? LOL

Geoffkait - I do know about the anti-placebo and realize that people that don't beleive are less likely to hear a difference.

I was very skeptical of Nordost Sort Kones. Eventually the salesman convinced me to take a set home with the promise that if I wasn't satisfied he'd take them back. I'm not convinced that the difference that I hear is real, but I'm also not convinced that they didn't make a difference so I can't take them back. The problem with them is that they take several minutes to install and remove making A/B comparisons extremely difficult. A friend of mine would describe the difference that he thinks he hears in a very similar way to how I would, but commented that he'd like to hear an instant A/B comparison.

In the case of Sort Kones I can see how it is possible that they could make a difference.

I wasn't convinced about speaker wires making a difference but I have heard a difference between a $7 pair that I took in from the hardware store and some $2k Nordost cables, but the difference wasn't even close to being worth the price.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I have heard a difference in things that I wouldn't have believed without hearing it for myself, but in each of these cases I understand how it could make a difference and my objection was that I didn't consider than any difference would be audible. In the case of cryo-records I simply can't conceive of how anyone would ever think that it could make a difference. It's outside the box of logical reality for me.

Mceljo - It's certainly understandable that one cannot conceive how Cryo-records could make a difference. I suspect until one actually tries these things for himself, in his own system, with his own ears, the preposterous nature of things like cryo-records, wire and fuse directionality, tiny little bowl resonators, coloring the edge of CDs, crystals, Mpingo discs, demagnetizers, ionizers, extremely low frequency generators, things of that nature, there will be a lot of skepticism to overcome. I guess you could say the same about black holes, the big bang, relativity theory, teleportation and the atomic bomb - the preposterous nature of such things makes it extremely difficult to conceive they're real without proof or demonstration.

Does audiogon charge for plugging products and writing in marketing adds in the guise of a thread, or is it just sort of a fringe benefit?

The Easter Bunny is curious about this one. Santa is trying to figure out if cryo'd snake oil is still the same stuff as original snake oil.