2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
rchau
43 posts
 
Volleyguy-The answer is probably demand. Since modern mass market electronics run on low voltage (less than 24V), mylar film caps and the like are whats used in mass market stuff. Oil caps are typically used only high voltage equipment and it is a much smaller market.

The audio market for oil caps is rather small and limited to smaller boutique manufacturers. Paper in oil is popular in audio so these are made but that leaves little room for film in oil. There is probably somebody making these. You'll have to look.

You could try the paper or metal foil in oil types. Or try something like the Jupiter beeswax caps.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
What what I have seen from the old caps they are somewhat hotter. (louder) I am just going to have to start buying some and see. I suppose I can start with the tweeter caps and see what the caps sound like. I have this speculation that as caps break down they get slower. I think that is why the original caps started to sound bad on SS. (the same gear as when it sounded good) The caps seem to break up? When I put the tube amp on things did calm down a lot! When the Sonicaps went in all the break up in sound was gone. The liquid real sound gone but all the harshness as well. Do caps get slow and to slow to keep up? If I am right that is why (I think) the Mundorfs will do well fast yet smooth. This should be interesting. I am getting new inductors as well and manufactures say to keep within original spec for ohms. Less ohms means tighter thinner bass?
rchau
43 posts
 
The concept of fast or slow in audio is a rather nebulous concept that is not well defined.

As caps age, they change their values and hence the crossover points. They can also have other problems like leakage resistance, etc. Not a good thing.

It does sound like the original caps were shot. The trick is to find the right balance.

As for the inductors, the dc resistance is a side effect of having a real part. The higher resistance in an inductive device means more loss in the crossover. Also, the DC resistance of the inductor becomes part of the crossover and can change slightly the crosspoints. I wouldn't worry about this since the effect is small and you can't avoid it.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Well were talking Air core inductors do really sound better? (than Iron core) No one uses Iron core on higher end speaker anymore do they?
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Tomorrow I will be ordering caps for the tweeter. They will be Mundorf Supreme, Mundorf Silver in Oil and Duelund. (they are the only ouch to come!) The only to know is to try I guess. I found even the cheap Sonicaps to sound better in the tweeter. So I am starting there. I will be ordering those caps. They are all Class "A" or "B" in this list and most everyone has the Duelund's at the top of their list. At a big cost albeit! I do like the all natural components rather than plastic. I hope one of these will sound the best. Part of me hopes it is the Mundorf Supremes as they are very affordable!
More to discover