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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Thanks Jim.

I started this because when I was looking I would hear buy this or buy that but did not know what it meant.

I always use the does it make me want to listen more. If I am spending a pile of money on gear it better make me WANT to listen.

I am having a hard time not pulling out the Duelund and and putting back in the Mundorf Supreme to work with the Silver in Oil. I will try the Duelund with the Supreme to make sure it is not just a bad match with the SIO.

Being horn speakers I do not mean to say the Duelund's are not good.

The Mundorfs make me want to listen more. Juicy detail. Elanor Rigby I have heard 100's of times and have not ever heard the (I believe) 4 piece strings and with front to back depth. With the Duelund that same magic is not there. The Duelund's are louder and brighter. There sound tends to move toward the older PIO Klipsch caps.

To be fair the Duelunds are not broke in. One thing I have found (for me) if I like the caps they get better with time and if you do not like them they may become less bad but I have not said hate to love it after reasonable break in. You get an idea if you like it within a few hours.

I will check your site out Jim and I think you are right with the Mundorf's. Very special! When you put a cap in and go I never knew that was there when you have heard something 100's of times and it sounds right and better that is a good sign.

I am hearing nothing in the Duelunds I have not heard before. They may be brighter. The Mundorf's felt very musical and balanced.

Maybe Duelund's need to be only with other Duelund's but without anything to make me feel for sure that will be better I will NOT spend that kind of money to find out. The Mundorf's do work with other Mundorf's and now I will likely be buying more to find the right combo for the midrange which is 13uf.

Having one original and one speaker being worked makes this stuff easy.

So far
1. Mundorf SIO and Supreme
2. Original PIO (from memory from before went bad)
everything else is very distant
3. Mundorf and one Sonicap
4. Old worn out PIO
5. Duelund and Mundorf SIO
6. Two Sonciaps.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Jim this is very educational for me as well. There is $250 of tweeter caps (in just one speaker) with the SIO and Duelund and I would pull them out and put the old vintage ones back in, in a second. So it is for sure not about $. Yet it is about $ too as the SIO are wayyyyy better built then the Soncicaps with 50x the volume in size of the cap. Even the leads are 3x as thick.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Put the Supreme back in to go with the SIO. (Duelund out)
First impression was they sounded a bit coarse. The better thing about the Mundorf's is they are very well balanced to these speakers. I do not feel like I wish they were louder or quieter. They are just right. I did notice with the Duelunds that the violins snapped out like violins so depending on your speakers you may want that. With the horns it was a little too much. The Mundorf's are more laid back. The Duelund was wearing not as enjoyable.
tmhaudio
122 posts
 
VG, I forgot to mention the Mundorf Silver-In-Oil caps need a solid 300 hrs to fully break-in and will go through a roller coaster of sonic changes. Patience will be rewarded!

Glad to see your comments based on Beatles music - a big fan here! btw, Ringo's "songs" were normally done with less electronic processing and may sound more "there".

Jim Ricketts/tmh audio
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Thanks Jim

300 hours. I keep hearing the long break in time but they sound really good to me after 10 hours! Can't wait to hear what they will sound like in 300. Right now I am using the Supreme and the SIO would you expect two SIO's too be better. I am ordering another Monday and likely another Supreme. I may just get the SIO and try two on the tweeters. They are very easy to listen too. Detailed without fatigue. I am very glad to have found a cap that works well in vintage horns. Looking forward to another 30 years with the speakers.

The internet sure is handy to hear from other audio freaks. From the volumes I read on the net I thought the SIO would be the one. But you never know till they are in.
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