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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Undertow
I always understood if you run caps in parellal that you get a higher % of performance from the better cap?

That is another question for some cap guys. I will need a 13uf midrange cap and undstood that if I ran say a Mundorf Supreme 10uf and a Duelund 3.3uf you ended up with say a fairly high % of what was capable of the better cap?

Undertow I heard distict improvements going to even one Sonicap and a Mundorf Supreme. (very cost effective too)
I heard improvement again with the SIO and Supreme. Then again with a Duelund and Supreme. So it can not just be the weakest link. (must be some combination of the two)

I will be ordering a second Duelund to see if two are twice as good as one. I expect not but am not sure.

I do not mean to say anything against Mundorf either guys as I thought them VERY good and only upon installing the Duelund's things go to another level. Also I would not consider Duelund's unless one really liked their speakers and were going to hold on to them for life.

I will still be using Mundorf's with the Duelund's for a cost benifet. I just have a itchy trigger finger to start buying more (Duelund's) to get on with this but am going to do the burn in.

I am thrilled with the sound but of course like everyone else if a Supreme would do it for a fraction of the cost and not hear a difference of course that is what I would do.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Anyone know this?

http://www.tempoelectric.com/caps.htm

Tempoelectric recommends mixing caps to cancel each other out. Has anyone tried this? I sure hope it works that way. A Supreme/Duelund combo would cut costs dramatically. If it makes the sound even better that would be excellent! Tempo says that each brand of cap has it's own signature.

May be why my intitial impression was that Duelund/Supreme seemed better the Duelund/SIO? (that combo did sound bright) I will check that more.

Any advice?
sherod
1,690 posts
 
I recommend and 2nd the earlier posts from the gentlemen who suggested that you be patient and let the caps form and break in thoroughly before you get too excited about the sound. Not only do these caps require significant time to fully form and flesh out their ultimate sound, but they will probably do the rollercoaster ride of going up and down with their sonic changes. Some of today's better film cap types will do the "one step forward, two steps backwards" sound on you, so try to give each combination of caps enough time of evaluation before you dismiss one or the other and put in another prematurely. Trust me that patience is a virtue regarding this cap break-in thing. I'm glad to see that you're having fun, though, in the meantime. That's what this hobby is all about. (O:
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Put back the SIO with the Duelund's and I know guys wait till break in but I still hear a upward tilt. I hear caps with the Supreme's/Duleund's I could not fault.

I can not even hazard a guess at the best combo for the midrange. Any guesses where to start in % of 13uf Mundorf Supreme and % Duelund?

400 hour break in. Holy smokes I be till Christmas doing this. Someone mentioned how to do this without having to listen or have on for 400 hours.

So far I agree with Tempoelectric. That the SIO has somewhat a top end emphasis. The Supreme SIO combo was good but SIO Duelund is bright washed out and does not have the naturalness as with the Supreme's.

So far the combo is Supreme/Duelund or Duelund/Duelund (which I have not yet tried).

I know I know wait till break in but the Duelund/Supreme sounded awesome at 20 hours.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Ran another 6 hours on SIO with the Duelund. Impression still the same. I could hear from upstairs (speakers in the basement) the over emphasis on the top end.

I switched back in the Supreme just to listen before bed.
Love the balance. I also ordered another Duelund. Not expecting a improvement or much with two in fact I expect it to get bright. Of course I am just guessing.

Tempoelectric talked about using two differnt kinds of caps to cancel their signature's out. I know you guys say to wait until burn in fully done and I of course am not argueing but as the hours tick on all the caps my fav combo is still the same and by the same amount. I can see caps getting smoother but too much top end to go away???? Can't see why?

The tweeter caps are in series and I find them great together but there is only one 13uf midrange cap. So do two different caps work the same way in parallel??

This I have no idea what to do? How much Supreme how much Duelund? or even if the same thing applies to midrange?
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