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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I put the Sonicaps back in to complete the breakin on them as I have disapointed some people with the test.

I did some measurements for some
Sonicap radius 8mm x31mm long
Supreme radius 13mm x50mm long
SIO radius 20mm x53mm long

So volume of caps are pie x radius2

Sonicaps volume 6230 cubic milimeters
Supreme volume 26533 cubic milimeters
SIO volume 66568 cubic milimeters

My problem has been not the poor sound of the Sonicaps or lack of detail but lack of dynamics.

Upon having them back in I first thought I might have been too critical. They are a BIG step down from my fav's Duelund/Supreme. I may have to move them up from last though.

I would say they are realitively smooth but flat in dynamics. The Supreme's are smoother but more importantly more dynamic. If it was my Linn speakers I may consider them but would likely go with Supreme's.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
First off I will shed a little light.. I have experience with just about every cap, minus the Duelands.. I can say easily Sonicap standard Gen II's are not the end all be all or near it, they do cost very little money though, I mean a 1 uF cap is what 7 bucks? They are decent, but much better in some electronics than speakers from my experience, however even in components will be handed a beating from some of the better caps.. They are very linear, but slightly dry, and are no question flat... But they also seem to exhibit a slight over raw enhancement, much like Dynamicaps, which are even worse in some critical applications if you don't want a lot of added peaks and valleys in your overall sonic soundscape don't use sonicaps or dynamicaps...

This is just my opinion in the limited applications I have tried... The mundorfs are Great, but still slightly overpriced, a more neutral and capable cap to an extent in my opinion is the Cardas golden reference, and the Sonicap platinum, but both in very small values and are pretty pricey... They take about 400 hours to open up, I ran them in a hi power TUbe application for about 2 weeks straight with cheap 2 dollar tubes to burn them in, and WHAT a difference.. Speakers will NEVER burn in a tube like power electronics until probably even 1000 or 2000 hours so get ready :-)
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Thanks Undertow

I was starting to wonder if I had been to harsh on the Sonicaps. They at 40+ hours now.

I still find them very flat. They are not offensive just not that great compared to the others.

I notice their faults even more now after hearing the Duelund/Supreme. At 40 hours they seem even farther behind.

I can say some might find them better than the vintage (worn out) caps if they prefer their "more correct" sound and do not mind their lack of dynamics.

I still find them below the old vintage caps (to me) and for sure the vintage caps were better before worn out.

When I did this with the caps I got what Tony Gee called the start of high end caps at a bargain price. The Sonicaps may be that, I'll take his word but they are NOT in the league of the better caps. (Duelund and the 2 Mundorf's)

From what I understand one can do much worse though some of the expensive caps seem to be rated no better.

I have not tried Cardas or will I at this point.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Stormen

Thanks

You have given me something to think about. (inductors) I am ordering the midrange caps Monday and will see how that goes.

That is quite a read on Steen Duelund. Going to take awhile to digest this.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Trying to put a number value on the cap difference.

I have never been a digital fan. All the tests so far are done on CD because I do not want to log hours on my cartridge. The two CD players I am using is a NAD (20 year old one) and a Linn Karik. (which I never thought was that great compared to vinyl)

Doing just the tweeter caps Duelund/Supreme about $400 both speakers. ($30 for Sonicaps) If it came down to a choice (of money on CD player or caps) the cap difference from Sonicap to Duelund/Supreme is at least 5x the difference from the two CD players. That is just doing the tweeter caps. I can not imagine what it will be when all is done!

It is just HUGE! In fact when the Duelund/Supreme was in it is the 1st time I have ever enjoyed digital. I only have the player for my wife and back ground music.

Money on caps (great caps) also is better money spent in the fact that all sources will be better.

I would like to hear some opinions on this but I think money on caps may be better money than on speaker wire, interconnects or anything I can think of???
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