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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Volleyguy
You are looking for a tuff call on that one.. I have in klipsch horns used exactly a 6.8 and 6.2 stacked of the same brand and ended up with much better result than splitting them up with 2 different brands or using one of lets say 11 uF and 2 uF to get the same end value... If you are buying a duelund that large and costly, well yes you are going into a "Peace of mind" issue that can not be solved even if it does sound great.. Plus the midrange is going to be even more critical in my opinion over the tweeter.. however you have knocked down the edge of that speaker already with the mundorf/duelund combo.. I hate to say it, but money wise, and performance wise, I would not stick anything on your mid horn but a stack of the mundorf only, meaning a 6.2 and a 6.8 and you will probably hear no more than a 5% difference for way less money than a duelund combo... Leave it on the tweeter, but also you don't need either of these caps on your Woofer, it should be parallel and have much less effect, but if its cost effective and you can get a mundorf supreme as a direct size replacement on your woofer go for it, BUT you woofer will benefit 10 TIMES more with replacing just the inductor on it with a Alpha Core 12 gauge copper ribbon inductor.. The cap has way less effect in this case, but even a solen cap for 2 dollars can sound great with the big inductor feeding your woofer.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Thanks Undertow
Yes I too think the midrange even more critical than tweeter. In the tweeter of course the caps are in series and the midrange would be in parallel.

I may go next to the inductor.
You find that to make that much difference? I was looking at an Alpha Core 12 guage you mentioned a Mundorf 12 guage or maybe a Duelund.

I am confused with the Supreme on the woofer? We have a 2.5mghz inductor and no cap on the woofer?

Are you saying a better inductor made the highs sound better and Alpha core was better than original?
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Undertow if I understand what you are saying the inductor made more difference than caps? to you? or is the vintage Klipsch inductor not that good?

I know it is iron core and some kind of wrapping. What is the quality of their inductor?
undertow
1,033 posts
 
First off if your woofer has no cap thats even better, secondly YES an inductor mainly on the woofer alone will make a great deal of difference, caps not so much... You will get better more solid response and you will swear your speaker goes up another 3 db from like 98 to 101 db if you put that inductor on the woofer.. I guess the mundorf inductor is fine, but was not aware they existed? The duelunds look killer, but man they gotta be a ridiculous amount of money, I would go alpha core the big ones... You don't have a mghz inductor by the way its 2.5 mH, which is Milli henry as the measurment... That is a pretty large and VERY heavy in weight inductor by the way.. On your woofers will open them up like niagra falls so your bass response will be pretty highly increased...

As for inductors on your mids and highs, yes new inductors like the 14 gauge alpha cores would be far superior to the iron core cheapy ones on them now from the 70's, however inductors are more or less going to be more accurate buying new ones, not necessarily night and day difference on the horns overall like the caps, its the reverse for woofers, it will be a night and day difference with better inductors on the woofers, but caps are less critical on the woofers as long as they are the accurate value for the most part, in your case even better you don't need them at all! As a matter of fact you might find your favorite overall upgrade to that speaker is the inductor on the woofer all together, your integration with the mid driver will be that much more lush and dynamic.

Again unless your building outboard crossovers which I highly suggest, you might have a problem fitting and mounting a 2 lb weight inductor inside... they are not that cheap either your gonna be about 60 to 70 bucks each for that value I believe in the Goertz alpha core copper ribbon 12 gauge.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
By the way see link below... This is the last outboard and full upgraded version of klipsch speakers I did for a friend of mine.. I have done K-horns, cornwalls, and reference series by outboard premium crossovers in the past, you will see that using all premium parts like this make your original crossovers look like matchbox cars! These were only 2 way klipsch by the way, so no midrange circuit which is even more complicated, costly, and sizeable.. You will see the horn board was separate of the woofer board, and then they were stacked on top of each other to save some space and built into an enclosure which still ended up about 8"X 10"X 6" and next to some pretty large TUbe amps sitting in one pic with them hooked up you can see the comparison, they get rather large.... Good luck, and those caps and inductors are the sizes you are using, same physical sizes...
http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/103108.aspx?PageIndex=1
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