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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Tearing apart the Linn speakers tomorrow. Looking at a less expensive redo there as well.

I have this theory that maybe a cheap Linn all in one player may sound better than much more expensive source and pre and amp with better crossover parts.

This goes right against what Linn has said for so long. I have really been questioning this (in my mind) overspending on source to run through crap crossover parts.

In my case a Linn Karik (with the Numerik) Kairn/Klout pushed 15k new. (with a Tuner) A Linn Classik was $1500. What if changing the speaker caps which Linn uses that are dirt cheap even retail to better crossover parts made the cheap Classik sound better than the much more expensive seperates? My wife would rather have just one piece of gear in the livingroom anyway in the second system.

It has been bugging me. I have taken Linn at there word and even if one did not get that brand I believed the formula of source first. Now I am really starting to wonder? A fully loaded new Lp12 is 15k plus! Then they run that through $2 capacitors! The Linn parts are much cheaper than Sonicaps. Not that price always means better but usually really cheap is just that.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I have asked on the Linn thread about capacitors replacement. No response. Almost if it was a crazy idea. In Linn world Aktiv is taken as a given. I know it works well but what about just staying passive in the case of just being better without the massive expense?

Linn claims that the passive network can absorb 50% of the power! (at moderate/high volumes)

I think that can put to rest the importance of the crossover.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:VC4GJNTO8-8J:www.tonbildspinnerei.ch/pdfs/Aktiv_Explanation.pdf+taking+out+Linn%27s+passive+crossover&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I took the Linn speakers apart and it is a crazy idea as the speakers crossovers are a circuit board. There is a 8uf Bennic and at least two other bigger caps 50mfd's and one unmarked cap. There is three inductors plus other parts I do not even know what they are. Much more complicated than the simple Klipsch "AA" so therefore more costly to redo. Linn claims just to skip the passive crossover and go aktiv is more cost effective. It seems to me Linn must not think one is going to stay passive for long as the 8uf Bennic is about $3 (if you order 10 or more which no doubt they are) Well built speakers and lots of insulation just not spending to much on the crossover parts.

The Linn Bennic 8uf cap is about the size of the 2uf Sonicap and is thought to be even a cheaper sounding cap. It is a tiny fraction of the size of the 2.2 Mundorf Supreme. I know some guys do not think cap size matters.
The 50mfd Bennic'a look to be worth a buck and half each. It would cost a fair $ to build out of Mundorf Supreme quality of parts though not being cost effective compared to used Aktiv and amps.

Scatch that idea.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Clarity cap MR… Well it’s the best cap made period, for the price none will come close.. A Vcap with 400 hours on it will probably sound 95% similar.. out of the box these bad boys are all there! Unreal soundstage, earth cracking huge, vast, tight and clear bass… Vocals are full and dynamic without a hint of glare. Highs are silk, better than the oil caps in my opinion even, how did they do it? I have no clue, some caps are best in certain locations or frequency ranges, this is the best Full range wide open cap I have heard.. I was very worried that they would need some substantial burn in to clear up, or have lower glare and distortion, they don't need anything.. They are what I consider for the price of about 60 bucks a 1 uF cap, perfect. My previous caps in my tube amps and preamps before.. Yes they were all in the same equipment and changed out over the years…Warning the MR clarity caps are HUGE and HEAVY

1- my equipment came with Auricaps "So so"

2- Cardas caps, very nice, a little rolled off, but as good as any teflon caps

3- Mundorf Silver oils, excellent with highs and mids, bass was a bit too soft

4- Sonicap platinums, might be slightly better than the cardas, definitely better bass than the mundorfs, also a really good bypass cap. Take forever to burn in however..

5- Dynamicap (TRT Wondercaps) A little too emphasized and zippy, but if you need to pep up some tubes these can help.. These were not bad on their own, and pretty good in speaker applications, but benifited very good from sonicap bypasses above.. I have used these in both electronics and speakers as with all the above caps.

6- Jantzen superior, best cost to sonic ratio also with best voltage handling to most of the above, for the price these kill the cardas type caps which are not cheap, and are similar but better, they don't take much to burn in, they are a tiny bit fuzzy compared to some of the teflons, but still very natural, distortion is bettered with a good teflon bypass cap making these a bit more "Solid" sounding.. They have the best bass out of the above caps as well as very extended highs.

7- Finally the Clarity CAp MR… For the price, build quality, and incredible sonic response, these are not beat.. Zero need to mix with some other cap to try and re-balance something, absolutely the best out of the box caps as well.. And they play nice with others, ZERO compression in the sound, Best darkest background and just depth, no doubt this is a worldclass cap, I can believe these for the money will probably beat out the V-cap types without question and are available in way bigger values than the v-caps… I would look no further than these if you want all of what these exotic caps claim like the Mundorf Gold Oils, and the v-caps, even the duelunds. These will work out the kinks in even the most critical applications I truly believe and that’s not just because I am now using them.

I have not heard the caps in a speaker like all the others above, however I can say I doubt they will not perform to the highest in that application as I have them running full range single caps right now handling virtually the entire signal feeding all my other caps in the system which are 100% Jantzen superiors, I dumped all the others. I am going to back them with a Duelund VSF in a crossover, this will be a world class mix..

My opinion, best cheap but not too cheap caps are the Jantzen superiors for sure, no contest even with the caps 4 and 5 times the price in the ones I have experienced, the MR's are that final just put it on cruise control level however, they do nothing but perfect.. Who knows once they burn in, but this is the first ones I have heard that I don't even care!!! Much like how some believe the duelunds off the bat are just better from the instant satisfaction. And Zero regrets on the money spent vs. some of the above which get questionable.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Oh forgot to mention the Jensen Oil Copper caps.. Reason is they are not worth mentioning... That should tell you enough, very fuzzy, very boring. I know they make the dulunds, but obviously a totally different design.
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