2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Undertow I do believe that the Clarity is very good. I just if possible do want to stick with Duelund.

There is something with the poly caps I have tested anyway that is somehow fake? I am not sure what it is. As soon as say the Sax's breaks up the mind goes, not real? With poly caps there is sounds but the mind does not say Wow that is clearly a (whatever) I have to try and figure it out.

In one of the Beatles songs on the vintage/Duelund you can hear the tri-angle no problem and "know" that is what they are playing. You can feel the energy of it as well. That song is Hey Jude and on the Mundorf's it is really pathetic really. Almost not even the same song.

With Poly caps there is a sterilization of the senses. The Mundorf's although quiet are still rough sounding. They reduce the sound to beat not instruments.

Foil caps can not all the time make it so real but they can some of the time make it uncanny real. The poly's are never doing that.

I am in the rough spot now where each cap reveals (vintage/Mundorf) the others flaws and you are happy with neither.

I would chose the vintage though more noise and real instruments beats less noise and fake sounding.

What causes this? Undertow do the Clarity caps make instruments sound real?

Here is another guy who thinks the foil types are much better than poly. Although I would not say "bright" is the exact right word. "Fake" would be my discription and this is only on direct comparison can one tell.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1222484923

Undertow if I was to try another cap it would have to be of similiar design to Duelund a stack foil or foil cap of some kind.

I feel a little burned right now and frustrated. The Mundorf's would have been hammered by the vintage when they were new. (noise was a lot less)
undertow
1,033 posts
 
I get what your saying.. But I think you just have not tried the right caps yet, but of course you can stack 1000 dollars worth of duelunds and get your desired effect, just trying to save you a little, in the midrange I would be shocked if the MR's did not match up 99% to what you hear from the duelunds... I have not used the MR in speakers, but in a much more touchy location in my system anyway, nothing worked better, I will have the duelunds going into my horns hopefully in the next 2 weeks, they had to be custom ordered in my size by Parts connextion. Again I would have easily stuck with the MR's knowing they will probably do as well in this application, however they don't make the size exactly as duelund will in this case.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I can't wait to hear your impression of Duelund's.

Do you have any all vintage tube amps as well? I am not sure what the effect will be of them if there is poly in the system?

What is the price comparison from them to Clarity?

Duelund to me is just a known effect to me Clarity is unknown (barring what you have said) but I am getting strong feelings on NO poly caps.

This doing the crossover rebuild to me has been excellent.

It has totally changed my sense of what matters and what does not.

Doing this changed my whole thoughts on audio.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Undertow I do have a friend who is going to come over when done to hear the Duelund's and he is also a Khorn owner who wants to know.

I have already asked him to post on here his thoughts.

I feel it is good to have more than 2 or three vintage Klipsch owners impressions.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Duelunds vs. Clarity cap MR size for size.. Well I know you can get a Clarity MR for about 60 bucks in 1 uF and a Duelund is somewhre in the 120 to 135 region.. So yep half the price of Duelund.. But double what a Mundorf silver would cost I guess.. As for larger sizes like you need on your speakers.. Well a Clarity MR 10 uF is something like 260 eachÂ…. But a Duelund I am sure is in the 500 each range.. So there you go. I would not go to such sizes in any cap if not necessary, I have speakers that only require about a 6 uF cap tops, and my components are in the .22 uF to 1 uF range so no need to get silly on extreme cost large values for me as it might be for others.. And yes I was in fact using 100% tube, not totally vintage, they are newer components but have vintage sound along with the clarity of newer components and some better parts.. However I am still using a fully modified custom Tube PReamp and phono, I did now put in some Pure Class A Solid state mono blocks which are the only so far to match up well to the tube S.E.T sound of my other amps in my system.
More to discover