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Selling dispute. Please comment.

I recently sold a pair of mono amps and checked the box that indicated the original manual was included. I never use the manual for something like this and just assumed the manual was in the box as there were some various papers from the manufacturer in the boxes.

The buyer got the amps safely and they are in perfect condition as described. I shipped the same day the item sold. Unfortunately the manuals were not in the boxes the amps came in. These were the original boxes, but the manuals are not there according to the buyer.

I sent him the link to download the pdf of the manual. He is not happy with that. I offered to print a color double sided copy (on good stock) at Kinkos for $20 (at my expense) and ship that to him. He says that the original manual was promised and that I have to deliver that to him. And that he dervers two of them since the amps came in two separate boxes. He is threating to kill the deal and dispute with audiogon and paypal.

I admit that I'm in the wrong for mis-stating that the manuals were included. I will attempt to order the manuals from the manufacturer on Monday, but I don't know that the manufacturer will provide them even if I pay for them.

I'd appreciate comments regarding this problem. Thank you.
jaxwired
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almarg
9,670 posts
 
Lloyd & Joe (Trelja), your points are of course well taken. But being on solid ground legally, as well as morally and by any other reasonable measure, doesn't necessarily equate to a practical solution.

In this case, the buyer is threatening to "kill the deal and dispute with audiogon and paypal." At best, that would lead to a lot of hassle and wasted time. At worst, it would lead to a charge-back, and possibly to the items being received back in damaged condition (as Mark rightly pointed out). And with the buyer being the party to whom the shipping service is contractually obligated, in terms of a possible insurance settlement! Which is why I said that as a practical matter Jaxwired is essentially stuck with having to negotiate, no matter how rightful his position may be.

Regards,
-- Al
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driver's avatar
driver
750 posts
 
Since this fellow has already threatened to dispute, if you can't get an original manual, I would offer the full refund & if he accepts, you'll know he wanted a way to back out. In the long run it'll be easier to resell than deal w/a dispute.

I've made copies of original manuals (Threshold comes to mind) that turned out better than the originals & the buyer was quite happy.

I don't think the lack of a manual or a copy makes an amp any less expensive (or desirable).
polk432
1,142 posts
 
You need to make the buyer put in a claim first or return the item. Do NOT sign for it when it is delivered. Have the driver take it back to USPS, FED EX UPS or wherever and then go there and open it in front of them and a witness (and take pictures) to make sure there is no damage and that everything you sent him is in the box. I had someone strip parts off of a cassette deck once and I had a Sheriff come to my house and make out a police report but Paypal would not help me. I resold the deck after purchasing the missing parts and downloaded a manual for the new buyer. Unfortunately for the first buyer, I had his work # and with the help of a few friends, lots of quarters and pay phones, made his life a living hell untill they told me he was no longer employeed there after 3 weeks. I followed up on the calls every few weeks to make sure. I hope it doesn't come down to that but you have to be careful. You should call Paypal to ask how claims work so you'll know how to proceed. Just don't beleive that will go to bat for you in a dispute, the buyers Credit Card Co. makes the final decision. Best of luck.
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mountainsong
422 posts
 
Well a little story once i sold my beautiful Dali speakers Helikon 800mk2
Original packing and extra outside we spent two days packing them.
My friend and i brough them to the ups truck ourselves.
When they get to destination were damage, owner claimed to credit card.
Credit card to paypal and my account was negat 4500 us dollars.
I brough ups to court but unfort i was overseas on graduate school at the time hearing took place if ever happened. No insurance save you, when you insured is trough a rip off company somewhere with trained people to speak like computers saying you did not package as per ups rules on and on.
End of the story my Dalis are on storage and will never ever used paypal again zero rights for sellers.
I ordered parts from Austria when i return to the US i will fix them and no sell them at any money.
Painful story maybe out of context but just cross my brain, still a fresh wound.
Regards
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