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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Well again the Cast can take the heat so to speak.. The VSF would not be trusted in some high voltage applications.. The casing alone on the VSF seems to be a pretty much basic just get the job done, and its simple which is why I feel its very good to any speaker application the fancy finish on the Cast is for high voltage something Duelund did not focus on until now it seems..

Sometimes the more straight forward and natural the better I have learned.. No doubt the Cast is another level for the Esoteric, but at the same time the Esoteric sound is not one I seek, the VSF seems to get a little bit of a rep for a slight lean toward warmer and more open..

The cast might be a little more "Controlled" but I am looking for more relaxed especially with a horn, thats why I know the Duelund silver graphite resistors although well within price range to risk them will not work out as well for me as like the straight heavy duty new Mundorf Resistors that are super natural sounding, and only cost 1.20 each :-)
stormen
30 posts
 
Undertow & Volleyguy,

I asked Duelund for comments regarding your last posts on the technical differences between the CAST and VSF caps, this is the reply I got (my translation):

"While it is true, there is a marked difference between the CAST and the VSF (to our ears at least...) this has nothing to do with differences regarding VDC performance ie. the CAST is not inherently better at handling high DC or AC currents. To achieve that you need to look at either our VSF DC or CAST 630v variants as they employ more layers of paper between the foils.

The remark about the "casing" of the VSF being somewhat of an afterthought is off the mark. The cap being a waxdesign is after several days of vacuum impregnation capable of "holding" its own shape which we augment by using a special lacquer. The upshot of this is ofcourse that there is no resonating box around the cap a highly desirable trait in our opinion.

The CAST being an oil cap at heart is not able to hold its own shape as the raw cap is soft. We take advantage of this by squeezing it in the CAST proces meaning it gets as flat as we can make it. The CASTing layer then keeps it that way. But again this has nothing to do with the standard CAST being better at handling higher currents than the VSF. The design brief was primarily to create a cap that is even less prone to resonance than the VSF."


Me again:

Volleyguy,

When you get the CASTs be prepared for a very long break in period. I used them non stop for 14 days before I was anywhere close to the performance, I'm getting now. To my ears well above the performance of the VSFs.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Stormen not sure you mentioned your application or sizes of cast caps your using? Can you enlighten what you did with the cast vs. the vsf?

Not sure, however they are for higher voltage.. Any cap is rated lower than it is from what I am told, for example duelund explained to me that the 200 volt rating for example is really capable of taking on 350.. Seems most caps virtually follow this.. however the cast are quite a bit higher at probably taking on about 800 to 850 volts.. Regardless its not really a point of the disscussion anyway, it was just simply stated that they made a higher voltage cap in which however the cast inherited the trait so be it.

Thanks
undertow
1,033 posts
 
They did it seems just in the past couple months come up with a higher voltage VSF design, this is rather current however, and I think it changes in Tiers of capacitance however I could be wrong, and I was explained for example a 1 uF cap is only done in a 400 volt version.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Stormen you are upsetting me. That quote of the CAST being quite a bit better than VSF? They made a mistake on my order and it would have taken 6-8 weeks to get CAST midrange caps. So I said just ship me the VSF's! I have two CAST tweeter caps (and two VSF tweeter caps previous order) and I am going to compare against each other. Now when you say the CAST is quite a bit better is that in the midrange as well??? I can see in the tweeter caps but even in the midrange? This is the question people have thought me nuts already and way past the point of diminishing returns. Then you go and say the CAST is THAT much better.

The order has been sent to me and I expect it tomorrow or the next day at the latest. I will likely never know what a midrange CAST cap sounds like. Now that the price has shot up. That is something I am hearing very little of that makes me wonder?? The CAST prices were once 50% more than VSF and now are 100% more. Which is why I ordered CAST in the first place based on old prices. Is it still worth the $ for CAST based on new prices?

Undertow my understanding of the CAST was not just about voltage but even lower resonance due to the high pressure construction. (lower resonance I just could not imagine and had to hear) It was the CAST that went up the most in price, much more than the VSF which is why I ordered (but only got some) CAST caps as they are now out of my range.

Undertow I am Ok if the VSF goes toward warm and open as I have horn speakers.

Stormen it sounds like Duelund says the CAST is basically a oil cap? Like the vintage ones I have?? (but of course with a massive reduction in resonance) Then maybe I do not understand the construction differences. The CAST as I thought them were the same as VSF except less resonance.

This is what confused me on the original order. The VSF sound like I did not know digital even could! So are they the ideal match for me even if they are less costly? Spending more money does not always mean better even for us audio nuts on the lunatic fringe!

Stormen on the breakin?? I do find the VSF to be sounding better today then when I got them but there was never any not wonderful sounding part of the break in except maybe first few minutes.

I do know Tony Gee has the CAST in for testing and it will be interesting if he ranks them a 14 or second to the VSF for whatever reason?
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