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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Just the first few hours on the mid range VSF Duelund with the well broken in VSF's om the tweeters.

Trying to get a handle on this.
This is not the same change as the tweeter caps. The first time I heard them (mid cap Duelund) my daughter was down here singing more than ever!

This is not the slam dunk that the tweeter caps were for two reasons.

The best cap I have here for the mid range was the original oil filled foil cap. It was miles better than the Sonicap and the Mundorf Supreme. The Sonicap I have sold long ago. The Mundorf sat here and I MUCH preferred the oil filled foil cap. Where in the tweeter cap all caps are much better than the originals.

I am going to have to go back and forth with the vintage and the Duelund VSF. Less resonance with the Duelund which I knew was in the vintage but it does sound harder???

The Duelund is not like the feeling I got with the Mundorf of falling in the ditch going what happened? But it is not all good either. As shocking as it sounds I could pull out the Duelund and put back in the vintage mid range cap?

The Duelund and vintage sound much more alike then any of the plastic caps.

Right now it is wayyyy closer than I ever would have guessed and so far it is still

1. Vintage for mid range.
2. Duelund VSF for mid range. (sounds rougher than the liquid filled vintage??? Shocked and not sure what is going on)

Then a long way down to
3. Mundorf Supreme (with the Russian PIO by pass)
4. Mundorf Supreme
5. Sonicaps

Tomorrow I will try the CAST with the vintage in the mid range. Also I am going to try the SS gear and analog (LP12) front end.

Somewhat concerned as every other cap I have tried the initial impression was similiar even after many hours and different gear combos. That will mean I will have spent a ton of money on little or no improvment. Something none of us ever wants.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Volleyguy...
Again as a warning, my suggestion you have to really remember here you can only expect in some way to end up being as good as the speaker is... I would suggest since going this far you need to probably build outboard crossovers, re-wire with better cable internally, probably deaden the cabinets further, possibly some simple bracing, maybe putting new footing on the speaker via spikes or some other means of coupling or de-coupling to the floor...

I mean it is all critical in taking a design to the next transparency level, your kinda just taking the same old desert receipe and dumping more whip cream on it vs. changing the receipe a little. Again you were kinda warned about this and spending what you did without maybe addressing some other issues.

You will still need a far better INductor on your woofer to really open up, and you also have the issue of being into a more complex situation since this is a 3 way speaker your working with and the midrange is always the hardest in the design.

Good Luck
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Undertow
These speakers are made with a outboard crossover. You may be right with the whipped cream though.

The first whipped cream (Duelund tweeter capacitor) made the desert MUCH better. Maybe I was (incorrectly) thinking more whipped would be even better.

But what if it is a simple as digital going through a tube amp going through a liquid filled capacitor (the vintage one) took all the digital edge off? Like I said I had never heard ANY digital sound like that. I did not even believe my CD player could sound that good!

I am going to put the vintage back in the midrange and listen for a bit then put in the CAST tweeter caps. Might be interesting.

Undertow I was not just trying to improve my speakers part of it was maintanance. (28 year old caps) That is how the whole thread started. The speakers got noisy and I started with cheap plastic caps (Sonicaps) then Mundorf (ordered one Duelund just to see) and was shocked how they were all downgrades except the Duelund whose foil design match perfectly.

Back to the vintage in the midrange.

One thing for sure is foil caps sound very different (and better in my mind) than plastic. The Duelund and vintage sound much closer than any of the plastic caps to the foil.

Next putting in the CAST tweeter caps.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
I do understand that, I realize it was a "maintenance" type approach, however you spent more on a couple small pieces than the speakers were worth so might as well get some full benefits out of the time and experience of it.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
These threads can be good to get a bunch of guys opinions so that one does not lose their head in the process.

Yes I know once I spent on the crossover I was locked into the speakers. The all vintage crossover does sound like a worn out speaker though so the money was spent replacing worn out parts not just for change sake.

I have the CAST in the tweeters now. Things might be looking up there. Even right out of the box they sound very good!
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