What Does Holographic Sound Like?


And how do you get there? This is an interesting question. I have finally arrived at a very satisfying level of holography in my system. But it has taken a lot of time, effort and money to get there. I wish there had been a faster, easier and less expensive way to get there. But I never found one.

Can you get to a high level of holography in your system with one pair of interconnects and one pair of speaker wires? I don't believe so. I run cables in series. I never found one pair of interconnects and speaker wires that would achieve what has taken a heck of a lot of wires and "tweaks" to achieve. Let alone all the power cords that I run in series. Although I have found one special cable that has enabled the system to reach a very high level of holography -- HiDiamond -- I still need to run cables in series for the sound to be at its holographic best.

There are many levels of holography. Each level is built incrementally with the addition of one more wire and one more "tweak". I have a lot of wires and "tweaks" in my system. Each cable and each "tweak" has added another level to the holography. Just when I thought things could not get any better -- which has happened many times -- the addition of one more cable or "tweak" enabled the system to reach a higher level yet.

Will one "loom" do the job. I never found that special "loom". To achieve the best effects I have combined cables from Synergistic Research, Bybee, ASI Liveline, Cardas, Supra and HiDiamond -- with "tweaks" too numerous to mention but featuring Bybee products and a variety of other products, many of which have the word "quantum" in their description.

The effort to arrive at this point with my system has been two-fold. Firstly, finding the right cables and "tweaks" for the system. Secondly, finding where to place them in the system for the best effects -- a process of trial and error. A lot of cables and "tweaks" had to be sold off in the process. I put "tweaks" in quotation marks because the best "tweaks" in my system have had as profound effect as the components on the sound. The same for the best of the cables, as well. For me, cables and "tweaks" are components.

Have I finally "arrived"? I have just about arrived at the best level that I can expect within my budget -- there are a couple of items on the way. In any case, I assume there are many levels beyond what my system has arrived at. But since I'll never get there I am sitting back and enjoying the music in the blissful recognition that I don't know what I am missing.

I should mention that there are many elements that are as important as holography for the sound to be satisfying, IMO. They include detail, transparency, coherence, tonality, and dynamics, among others. My system has all of these elements in good measure.

Have you had success with holographic sound in your system? If so, how did you get there?
sabai
Csontos,

Measurable would be nice, but I am not sure which printed specs tell me about sound staging or image depth?

Demostratable can only be defined by the listener and this is where I suspect the trouble starts. I say x sounds better while you say x makes no difference (or measurable sense). Then Geoff pipes up!
Measurements vs perceived sound

A long long time ago in a galaxy far away we found out that Total Harmonic Distortion of amplifiers did not dictate the sound, the perceived sound, of the amplifier. Not that THD does not carry some weight, but amplifiers, such as many tube amplifiers, with THD ten times higher(!) sounded subjectively better than some amps with vanishingly low THD, especially in terms of perceived distortion! We also learned that digital technology - for both electronics and software - with theoretical Dynamic Range and Signal to Noise ratio *Far Exceeding* that of analog, were neither as subjectively dynamic or clean as analog technology. It should have been a Slam Dunk. In reality off the shelf, untreated CDs quite frequently sound two dimensional, thin, tizzy, threadbare, compressed, unnatural, electronic, strident, rolled off, piercing, cluttered, like papier mache. What is going on? We also found out that room acoustics plays a crucial role in determining what the system actually sounds like, in particular soundstaging capabilities, but also in terms of distortion, naturalness and musicality. How good can a system get? You know, without changing out electronics and cables. Answer at 11.
I happened to have visited that galaxy. I believe it was called the 1970s. It was also discovered that certain other parameters outside of THD were responsible to a large extent for the perceived performance characteristics and attributes of the gear that was considered high end at that time. The cat wasn't in the bag for very long after all the major manufacturers jumped on the bandwagon. Hence the small handful of SS amps on the scene with the levels of THD that was just mentioned. So sorry to burst that little bubble, but tubes didn't and don't have a monopoly on desirable sound characteristics. Not that it was suggested they do, but just in case.
Csontos wrote,

"I happened to have visited that galaxy. I believe it was called the 1970s. It was also discovered that certain other parameters outside of THD were responsible to a large extent for the perceived performance characteristics and attributes of the gear that was considered high end at that time."

Pray tell, what might those "certain other parameters" be? Discovered by whom?

"The cat wasn't in the bag for very long after all the major manufacturers jumped on the bandwagon. Hence the small handful of SS amps on the scene with the levels of THD that was just mentioned. So sorry to burst that little bubble, but tubes didn't and don't have a monopoly on desirable sound characteristics. Not that it was suggested they do, but just in case."

Well, actually tubes did then and still have a monopoly on desirable sound, if you want my opinion.
Sabai:
The conversation seems to have taken a decidely interesting turn, and it's months since this thread started.
I am unclear why it has not been stated that a holographic presentation is an inherent property of the component itself. A Philips 1000 SACD player is not holographic: a JVC ZL-Z1010TN player is much more so. My Convergent SL-1 was holographic: My First Sound Deluxe Presence MK II was more so (and of course, each accompanying component must first reflect the designers' intent when designing their components). Any version of the Wilson Audio Tiny Tots will be enormously holographic, but then, so was the ARC SP-11 preamp and the Rowland Coherence pre amp, as well as the Rowland Model 5 amp with MIT cabling throughout. This was all circa 1988-1996 (among the setups I had at the time, although I had multiple amps, preamps, speaker systems).
It is not necessary to create - nor desirable - to create a holographic setup one piece at a time. If you wish that as an end result, simply buy components that are known for their holography (aka "imaging) characteristics. Separate from this is "focus" which is similar to having a 35mm camera with a lens that is slightly out of focus, and then you turn the barrel of the lens a micrometer to the point where you can see the flecks in the eye. Imaging (holography) and focus are not the same. You can have a diffused - but holographic - picture on the orchestra, or a "focused" but flattened image (the opposite of holographic. Think of a birthday ballon fully inflated, and one that is, after 12 hours, losing air, and a bit more deflated. Deflated = less holographic: fully inflated = holographic).
If you wanted an integrated amp that has both dimensionality and intense focus, borrow any of NAD's BEE series integrated: they have both characteristics. They will NOT have great high frequency extension and the first BEE model is a bit thick in the mid bass, but then, a midbass with a little extra "fat" on it will usually give you more holography than a midbass that is "lean" (again, think Kate Moss vs. Cindy Crawford as a visualization. Cindy is obviously more holographic). The midbass is highly responsible for a very "physical" presentation, aka "holographic. Without it, you will have less 3-D in the double bass (which lives a great deal in the mid bass) or cello or nearly any instrument.
Accompanying those frequencies, the upper bass and lower midrange also contribute to the 3-D presentation. In professional reviewers circles, this is also known as 'tone color." It will be rare that you have a tonal palette that is thin and washed out (more common among solid-state than among tubes) and yet have the 3-D effect (you CAN have it, but it will not be as vivid, since tubes are more, shall we say, "colorful"). If that is confusing, think of a red shirt: brand new, it has great richness of color (aka "tonal color"): after 50 washings, it has become a pastel color, a mere shade of itself so to speak, and therefore much less rich, or to use another term, a "thinning out" of the original rich shade.
So, back to components: thin tonal color = less 3-D: rich tonal color (particularly in the mid bass) = MORE 3-D.
I wouldn't be looking for my interconnects and speaker cables and power cords to GIVE me the 3-D presentation, as much as I would not want them to DETRACT from it, if it is on the recording (Mercury Living Presence CDs are famous for their 3-D presentation): low-level (quiet sounds: score pages being turned, player exhaling while playing an instrument or just sitting there) capabilities and great dynamic range. And highly dimensional (aka, holographic/ imaging/ 3-D).

Since you asked about "holographic," this is a component thing, NOT an accessory thing, speaking only in the sense of how to assemble a system. One buys the car with the traits one values FIRST: 0-60 in 6 seconds, turns on a dime, great suspension system, quiet on the highway with a minimum of "road noise (where you hear the sound of the tires upon the road. The tires themselves are secondary (some will disagree, of course), as is the radio, the air conditioning, etc. The point is that a Volvo and an Audi will have different inherent traits, which is the reason you prefer one over the other. You haven't listed your components, by the way. That would help you reach your goal. Please list them, so those of us who know them might suggest an alternative that is more "holographic." (Of course, all your components may already BE holographic, but if you don't list them, there is no way to know that your choices are helping you accomplish your goal.) If you have listed them elsewhere, then, please excuse my suggestion. I did not see any thread you have cooperated in other than this one.

I hope this is assistive to you.